University of Pennsylvania swimmer Lia Thomas is the first openly transgender athlete to win an NCAA swimming championship, and the honor has put her at the center of the discussion about trans competitors. Sports writer Louisa Thomas (no relation) tells the swimmer’s story in the New Yorker. She spoke with Shumita Basu for the latest episode of Apple News In Conversation about the difficulty of creating fairness in sports when no two athletes’ bodies will ever be perfectly matched.

The transgender swimmer whose success made her a target

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Apple News In Conversation with Shumita Basu brings you interviews with some of the world’s best journalists and experts about the stories that impact our lives. Join us every week as we go behind the headlines.