Victoria’s Voluntary Assisted Dying law came into effect in June 2019. The first of its kind in Australia and touted as the most conservative in the world, the passing of Victoria’s law was a watershed moment for end-of-life care in this country. More than eighteen months on, in April 2021, what effect is this law having on end-of-life care for terminally ill Victorians? Is the law working as planned? And is there room for improvement? The final episode of Better Off Dead season two centres on a recording of the Wheeler Centre’s Last Words: Voluntary Assisted Dying panel discussion. Previously broadcast on Radio National’s Big Ideas programme, it features a panel discussion on voluntary assisted dying hosted by Paul Barclay. Panelists include Andrew Denton, founder of Go Gentle Australia and host of the Better Off Dead podcast; Justice Betty King QC, Chair of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board; Professor Phillip Parente, oncologist; and Ron Poole, a terminally ill Shepparton man who has chosen to access the voluntary assisted dying life-ending medication. Our special thanks to Ron Poole, who generously took time out of the precious final days of his life to share his perspective on voluntary assisted dying. Ron died on 26 April, less than a week after this panel discussion took place. Our thoughts are with his loved ones. "People come to this often – late. And they come late because they really haven’t known about it, haven’t been told about it or are in a situation where they don’t want to face mortality." Justice Betty King Know more Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Audio: Legalising Voluntary Assisted Dying -- Radio National’s Big Ideas programme, part of Caxton Legal Centre's 'Justice in Focus' series. Presented in conjunction with QUT. Recorded on 21 February 2019 Visit: Voluntary Assisted Dying -- Victorian Health official website In order of appearance: Paul Barclay, Ron Poole, Andrew Denton, Phillip Parente, Betty King Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia. Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work. Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Page and transcript: Alice Boyle (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When Victoria’s VAD law was passed in 2017, it was touted by Premier Daniel Andrews as ‘the most conservative in the world’. This was true. Its 68 safeguards made it a far more daunting law for terminally ill people to access than similar laws in other countries. But was it too daunting? Much was said in parliament by opponents about the law’s ‘unintended consequences’. What if there are wrongful deaths? What if the doctor-patient relationship is damaged? Palliative care diminished? None of these fears have turned out to be true. But that doesn’t mean there have been no unintended consequences. They’ve just turned out to be not as opponents argued. In this episode, we hear from the families of two eligible Victorians who struggled to access VAD. And we hear something never heard before —-- a father and daughter as they actually go through the process of applying for a VAD permit, a process during which initial gratitude quickly turns to frustration, fear and anger. Allan Cornell and his daughter Kristin: photo Supplied “She wrote numerous letters and made numerous phone calls to, it seemed like, 30 neurologists, but nobody would do it. And Helen's doctor said ,’I think this is gonna be a race between us getting the approval for the VAD and you dying’” Reg Jebb Helen and Reg Jebb. photo: Supplied “He was dying. He was suffering. He was begging, begging me the entire day to finish it. Where are they? Kristin? Where are they? Where are they?” Kristin Cornell Kristin Cornell: “I am so encouraged by the existence of this legislation – but there is more we can do. We can do this better. It shouldn’t be so hard that one is tempted to give up.” Photo: Juliet Lamont Listen Episode Extra: Doctors Discuss the Unintended Consequences of Victoria's VAD Law Embed player Know more Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Article: ‘Assisted dying is not the easy way out’ — The Conversation, 19 Feb 2020 Article: ‘Without more detail, it’s premature to say voluntary assisted dying laws in Victoria are ‘working well’’ — The Conversation, 21 Feb 2020 Article: ‘Heartachingly painful: Allan waited for 100 days before being granted permit to die’ — The Age, 21 June 2020 In this episode In order of appearance: Kristin Cornell, Allan Cornell, Reg Jebb, Betty King, Greg Mewitt, Nola Maxfield, Andrea Bendrups and Nick Carr Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia. Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work. Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Transcript: Alice Boyle Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Music: James Domeyko Special thanks to our interviewees Kristin Cornell and Reg Jebb for their time for this episode. Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. © Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Whether it is through the words of the pope, his representatives the bishops and archbishops, or its surrogates in the medical profession, the Catholic Church remains the most determined force against voluntary assisted dying in Australia. In 2020, The Vatican released its latest encyclical on assisted dying and euthanasia. They called it Samaritanus Bonus – the Good Samaritan – and this is what it had to say about people who seek assistance to die. “Experience confirms that the pleas of gravely ill people who sometimes ask for death are not to be understood as implying a true desire for euthanasia; in fact, it is almost always a case of an anguished plea for help and love.” Requests for assistance to die are ‘not to be understood as a true desire for euthanasia.’ In other words, the people making them are somehow misguided. According to this narrative, people making such requests are likely to be demoralised; lonely; abandoned, feeling like a burden; or struggling to find meaning in – or even giving up on - their lives. And that, with the right kind of love and care, these things can be addressed. In this episode, we hear from some of the most senior figures in Australian palliative care. We also hear from others who have a different understanding of such requests, and who believe that the people who make them can be both considered and rational. Professor Michael Ashby Photo: Supplied Palliative care clinician Molly Carlile AM: “It has to be about why are we doing this. Who is it for? If it's about us, we have to ask: how does our view on a whole lot of things influence our practice?” photo: Supplied “It is not the role of any healthcare team to suggest that its ministrations can give meaning, purpose and dignity to a dying person’s remaining life if that person feels that these are irretrievably lost... Palliative care is a model of care, not a moral crusade.” Professor Michael Ashby Know more Visit: Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Video: Assad, Assisted Dying and Satire – ABC TV Q&A, 10 April 2017 Video: Q&A with the Archbishop - How do I explain the Catholic Church's teaching on euthanasia? – The Catholic Leader YouTube, 14 July 2014 Video: Experienced Victorian doctors warn Tasmania on dangerous bill – Australian Care Alliance, 9 September 2020 Video: Prof David Kissane: Euthanasia is terrible for medicine & society – Life, Marriage and Family Office 23 June, 2017 Article: Defending the indefensible? Psychiatry, assisted suicide and human freedom – Profesor Malcolm Parker, International Journal of Law and Psychiatry, Volume 36, issues 5-6 2013 In this episode (in order of appearance) Ron Fellows, Margaret Somerville, Patricia Fellows, Megan Best, Mark Coleridge, Jean Caliste, Jacqui Hicks, Nicole Robertson, Deb M, Katie Harley, Kristin Cornell, Peter Jones, Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, Phillip Parente, Peter Lange, Betty King, Michael Dooley, Anthony Fisher, Stephen Parnis, Michael Ashby, Natasha Michael, David Kissane, Malcolm Parker, Roger Hunt, Molly Carlile, Greg Mewett, Shayne Higson, Alex Broom, Kit Denton, Peter Abetz, Credits Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Transcript: Alice Boyle Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Music: Simon Kindt, Aaron Gleeson, and Joe Lodge Special thanks to our interviewees Michael Ashby, Roger Hunt, Malcolm Parker and Molly Carlile for their time for this episode. Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. © Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with voluntary assisted dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The assisted dying debate in Australia has revealed two parallel universes. The conservative Christian universe, which believes our lives belong to God; that whatever happens at the end of life is part of His plan. And the other universe – embracing 75% of Australians (including a majority of Christians) – with a shared belief we should have some control over how we die. Two different, but both entirely sincere, belief systems. What happens when these parallel universes intersect? What can it mean to die in a system where you are disempowered, and whose values you don’t share? Dame Cicely Saunders Photo: Wikimedia Commons Shayne Higson (second left), pictured with her sisters and their mother Jan (farthest right) who died of brain cancer: 'I thought that [with] terminal sedation … there would be no suffering, but that's not right' — Photo: supplied “What people don't realise is that they're entering an environment with particular values, and a history about what is okay, or not okay, and the nature of suffering. And by entering into that the patient and the family is almost embarking on an unwritten contract – that death will be not on my terms, but on the terms of the institution” Professor Alex Broom Know more Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Article: We do not like to talk about death -- but that doesn’t make euthanasia the answer -- Richard Chye, The Sydney Morning Herald, 14 November, 2017 Article: Assisted dying: My mother had the best palliative care -- and even that was not enough -- Shayne Higson, The Sydney Morning Herald, 15 November, 2017 Audio: Fearfully and Wonderfully Made (part 1) -- Megan Best, The Centre for Public Christianity, 24 June, 2013 Film: ‘The Broken Hearted’ Go Gentle Australia, August 2019 Jan K: 'You might think you're going to have great palliative care, but it is an absolute lottery. You can scream the place down if you want but, if they think that you're comfortable, that's it.' Photo: Joshua Raymond In this episode In order of appearance: Katie Harley, Megan Best, Alex Broom, Richard Chye, Shayne Higson, Roger Hunt, Jan K. Credits Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Transcript: Alice Boyle Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Music: Aaron Gleeson Special thanks to our interviewees Shayne Higson, Alex Broom, Roger Hunt and Jan K for their time for this episode. Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. © Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

At the heart of the political debate around voluntary assisted dying lies palliative care. On one side sits the argument that it can effectively deal with all pain and suffering, and that it should be made available to everyone before Assisted Dying is made legal. On the other, a recognition that – for all its benefits – palliative care cannot help everyone, and that those beyond its help should not be left to suffer, or – as some do – take their own lives. But beyond the political debate, within palliative care lies a much deeper argument. One about values. Palliative care’s background is as a provider of Christian care; more than half of Australia’s palliative care is supplied by The Catholic Church. According to The Vatican, assisting someone to die is ‘intrinsically evil.’ By papal decree, any request by a person for help to end their life is not to be taken as genuine, but is to be understood instead as ‘an anguished plea for help and love.’ But some palliative care clinicians have a different set of values. They see that their primary purpose is to act in response to what their patient wants and needs. It’s called person-centred care, a way of practising medicine that has been thrown into the sharpest focus imaginable by a law allowing doctors to help their patients to die. Palliative care clinician, and death and dying expert Molly Carlile AM. Photo: supplied ‘The bottom line for me is, you can choose whether you want to stop having chemo or anything else that you consider as futile treatment. And we are the defenders of those people. So how can we say, in the same breath, “Yes, you can make your choices, so long as it's not voluntary assisted dying?”’ Palliative care clinician, Molly Carlile AM For more Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Video: Clive Deverall talk Freedom of Choice WA Launch – YouTube, 5 February 2017 Article: Everyone Has the Right to Die Well – Molly Carlile, November 10, 2015 Brochure: To Love to the End – Life, Marriage and Family Office, The Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne, 2011 Dr Greg Mewett. ‘It's not for me to say how much someone's suffering and whether we can do more. It should be up to the individual.’ Photo: Juliet Lamont In this episode In order of appearance Jaala Pulford, Molly Carlile, Greg Mewett, Michael Ashby, Roger Hunt, Andrew Sloane, Anthony Fisher, Megan Best, John Flader, Tim Harris, Natasha Michael, Stephen Parnis, Jane Morris, Clive Deverall, Lisa Hogg, Alex Broom, Jan Kelly Credits Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Transcript: Alice Boyle Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Music: Jon Murphy, Brendan John Warner, Simon Kindt, Aaron Gleeson Special thanks to our interviewees Molly Carlile, Greg Mewett, Michael Ashby and Roger Hunt for their time for this episode. Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. © Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here. Subscribe via iTunes or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In September 2020, as Tasmania’s Upper House prepared to debate an Assisted Dying bill, an article appeared on the online publication Mercatornet. Above a picture showing a graph of a flatlining heartbeat superimposed over an elderly hand was a headline in big, bold letters: ‘Grandma took her life yesterday. Her doctors helped her.’ The article described a lonely, elderly woman, seemingly abandoned by her family in a Melbourne nursing home during COVID, encouraged by her doctors to end her life using Victoria’s Assisted Dying law. Photo: the image used by Mercatornet Within days, it was being promoted by religious groups and The Australian Family Association as a warning to MPs about why they should vote down the Tasmanian bill. In this episode, we reveal the truth behind that story. Who was Grandma? Had her family really abandoned her? Was her decision to die her own, or was she encouraged? And what was it that connected the crusading author and the website that gave her story a global platform? ‘Just to get out of bed, you could tell she was in pain... she was really struggling. My brother said, ‘God, if Mum could have that medicine tomorrow, she would take it.’ Everybody was understanding because we all knew what she'd been through and didn't want her to go through that again. ‘Ruth’s’ daughter ‘Jane’ For more Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Audio: Neil Mitchell clashes with former Catholic priest over protest outside Peter Mac Cancer Centre – 3AW Newstalk, 11 April 2019 Video: Fatal Fraud: A case study of tactics employed against evidence-based public policy initiatives – Go Gentle Australia, August 2019 Article: Code of Ethical Standards for Catholic Health and Aged Care Service in Australia – Catholic Health Australia, June 2001 Medical and Biblical Response to Euthanasia -- Dr Megan Best and Dr Andrew Sloane – Christian Medical and Dental fellowship of Australia, 2019 In this episode In order of appearance: Neil Mitchell, Eugene Ahern, ‘Bronwyn’, ‘Jane’, Tom Kenyon, Helen Lord, Leon Compton, Megan Best, Andrew Sloane, Tom Keneally, Stephen Parnis, Roger Hunt, Greg Mewett, Molly Carlile Credits Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Transcript: Alice Boyle Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’ written and performed by Jordan Laser Music: Brendan John Warner, James Domeyko, Simon Kindt, Michael Cusack Special thanks to interviewees ‘Jane’ and her family and Thomas Keneally for their time for this episode. Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. © Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, subscribe in iTunes, or via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your Stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The key word in Victoria’s voluntary assisted dying law is the first one: ‘voluntary’. By law, any doctor, nurse, or other health professional who conscientiously objects can choose not to participate in a person’s request for voluntary assisted dying. But how does an institution balance its employees legal right to conscientiously object with its obligation to care for its patients? Colin M, champion swimmer. “They were just playing in the waves. And he got dumped in one of those freak accidents and he knew straight away that he'd had a catastrophic injury.” -- Photo: Supplied In this episode, we meet Colin, a former champion swimmer and professor of philosophy who is dying and who has applied for the legal right to end his own life. Colin lives by the ancient Roman philosophy of Stoicism. This is what the Stoic Marcus Aurelius had to say about death: ‘Accept death in a cheerful spirit, as nothing but the dissolution of the elements from which each living thing is composed’. For a Stoic, it is good to “choose to die well while you can”. Colin is living in a Catholic nursing home. They have a very different philosophy about death and dying. To a staunch Catholic, choosing to end your life early is to “to take the place of God in deciding the moment of death”. What happens when these two ancient philosophies meet in one Melbourne nursing home? And when does ‘conscientious objection’ become ‘conscientious obstruction’? Sister Debra, niece Gabrielle, and nephew Elliot with Colin. “One of the most honourable people I think I've ever met.”-- Photo: Supplied “I don't understand how people can think that that's a good or an ethical thing to do to someone, like physically and emotionally to put people through that suffering” Colin’s sister, Debra Stoic Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius: ““Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one” -- Photo: Shutterstock For more Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Letter to Mercy Health, Go Gentle Australia, 15 January 2021 Response from Mercy Health, 7 February 2021 Article: ‘George Pell, Our Man in Rome’, – The Good Weekend Magazine, 26 February 2019 Article: ‘Stoicism in a time of pandemic: how Marcus Aurelius can help’ – The Guardian 25 April 2020 In this episode (in order of appearance): Deb M, Andrea Bendrups, Elliot D, John Stanton, Mark Coleridge, Peter Lange Credits Better Off Dead is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia. Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Music: James Domeyko, Aaron Gleeson Special thanks to the family and medical carers of Colin M for their time for this episode. Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here. Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There are many firsts in Betty King’s life. First female prosecutor for the state of Victoria. First female prosecutor for the Commonwealth of Australia. First female silk in Victoria. Now another – first Chair of Victoria’s Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board. Reporting to parliament, the Board oversees the processes of the law with its 68 safeguards, ensuring that doctors adhere to the rules, and that the people seeking assistance to die are competent and not being coerced. Of all the doubts raised by MPs in the parliamentary debate about assisted dying, none was more frequent than the fear that a vulnerable person may be coerced to their death by heartless relatives through the VAD law. In this episode, we meet Betty – the “Guardian of the Safeguards’ – as well as doctors, palliative care physicians, pharmacists, VAD Care Navigators, and families of those who have been through the process to find out whether any of those fears have turned out to be true. And we discover there is another, unwritten safeguard: To take this path, you have to have enormous courage. The Hon. Betty King QC, Chair of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board speaking on the panel at the Wheeler Centre's Last Words: Voluntary Assisted Dying event - Photo: Tiffany Garvie “It's not an easy process. But neither it should be. This is the ending of a life. And it ought to be treated in a serious manner. Because it's a serious thing to do.” Betty King Know More Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Article: ‘Interview with Justice Betty King’ Young Lawyers Journal, Law Institute of Victoria, 2010 Article: ‘King’s court: A one-off judge calls time’ – The Age, 9 July 2015 Article and interview: ‘Twelve months of voluntary assisted dying in Victoria’ – The Conversation Hour, ABC Radio National, 15 June 2020 Article: 'We're on the right side of history': Victoria’s assisted dying laws come into effect for terminally ill – The Age, 19 June 2019 In this episode (in order of appearance): Betty King, Stephen Parnis, John Daffy, John Stanton, Nola Maxfield, David Speakman, Susan D, Melanie D, Katie Harley, Andrea Bendrups, Greg Mewett, Nick Carr, Phillip Parente, Cameron McLaren, Peter Lange, Kristin Cornell, Lisa Hogg, Reg Jebb, Jean Caliste, Nicole Robertson, Jon Faine, Jacqui Hicks, Michael Dooley, Molly Carlile Credits Better Off Dead is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia. Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Music: Aaron Gleeson, Martin Peralta Special thanks to our interviewee Betty King for her time for this episode. Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here. Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Imagine turning up to work one day to discover flyers outside your office accusing you of being a ‘death peddler’ and an ‘Uber service for poison’. Professor Michael Dooley runs Victoria’s Statewide Pharmacy Service. When voluntary assisted dying became legal it was his job, and that of his team, to come up with medication that would effectively and painlessly end a terminally ill person’s life - and also a way to safely get it to them. Statewide pharmacists Prof Michael Dooley (right) and David Seymour. “We've told them very, very clearly that if they take that medication, it will kill them. Saying that the first time to someone sitting two feet in front of you is probably the hardest part.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont Michael and his team are the last step – and the final safeguard – in the long legal process a dying person has to go through to access the medication. What is it like to walk into someone’s home to give them a draught designed to end their life? Who do they meet and what do they hear? And what happens if, at this very last step, they have to tell someone, ‘I’m sorry, but no.’? “We find leaving very, very difficult. Because you have to say goodbye... and we've all talked about how we do it… And there's no easy way and we all have our own little way. You know, it's not a normal goodbye.” Professor Michael Dooley Nicole Robertson and Jacqui Hicks, with a photo of their mum Kerry Roberston. - Photo: Kristian Silva, ABC Melbourne The Locked Box. - Photo: Supplied Know More Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Article: ‘Lethal medication sourced for Victoria’s voluntary euthanasia scheme’ – The Age, 4 January 2019 Article: ‘Bendigo woman becomes first to use Victoria's Voluntary Assisted Dying law’ -- Go Gentle Australia, 4 August 2019 Audio: ‘Daughters' emotional tribute to Kerry Robertson, Victoria's first person to use voluntary euthanasia laws’ – ABC Melbourne Mornings with Jon Faine, 5 August 2019 Article: ‘Voluntary euthanasia to begin in Victoria as assisted dying laws take effect this week’ – ABC News, 16 June 2019 In this episode (in order of appearance): Kristin Cornell, Michael Dooley, Nicole Robertson, Debra M, Kristin Cornell, Jacqui Hicks, Jon Faine, Jean Caliste, Katie Harley, Liz Le Noble, Jason McKey Credits Better Off Dead is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia. Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta, with assistance from Adam Rothwell Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Music: Jon Murphy, Aaron Gleeson, Brendon John Warner, Simon Kindt Special thanks to our interviewee Michael Dooley for his time for this episode. Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. © Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – or if you’ve had an experience with Voluntary Assisted Dying, we would love to hear from you. Tell your story here. Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

So much was said during Victoria’s parliamentary debate about the people who would choose voluntary assisted dying, were it to be made legal. That they could not possibly know their own minds. “I do not believe that an individual who is facing such enormous pressure and stress is capable of making a decision to end their own life.” Nat Suleyman, MP That the burden of possessing life-ending medication would be too much for them. “If I was in that situation, I would probably think about it every hour — ‘Will I take it now? Will I take it tomorrow? Will I take it after I’ve watched my favourite TV show?” Luke O’Sullivan, MLC That they would be pushed into ending their lives by hard-hearted relatives. “Sometimes the relatives might … be wanting to encourage the person to take their medicine — take their poison, I should say.” Neil Angus, MP Or that they should never even need to make such a choice, because palliative care could alleviate all their pain and suffering. “Advances in palliative care medicine have been prodigious, to the point where well-managed cases under best practice palliative care can eliminate physical pain and discomfort.” Robert Clark, MP Why don’t we just let these people speak for themselves? Meet Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, and Peter Jones, three Victorians from very different backgrounds in the final stages of a terminal illness and facing potentially brutal deaths. Ron Poole, 77 and his beloved dog Bobby. “ The thing that got me was people saying how brave I am! I’m not being brave. Bravery doesn’t come into it. ” - Photo: Juliet Lamont Peter ‘Frankie’ Jones. “My daughter’s going to lose someone she loves very much, as I am. That’s my biggest fear...” - Photo: Juliet Lamont Each has exhausted treatment options and been offered expert palliative care. Each has chosen to complete the VAD assessment and has in their possession life-ending medication that they can choose to take – or not – when the time is right. Buoyed by the peace of mind of knowing they have an option to end their suffering if it becomes too great, all are determined to live what remains of their life to the full and say their goodbyes in the best way they know how. Fiona McClure, 67 and her partner Wim Wansink: “I've been very impressed with the whole process. Everyone has been kind, knowledgeable, respectful, able to discuss the options. There was no sense of urgency.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont “I'd like to go out in a pretty dress with a pretty pink lipstick, and having just had a latte with a girlfriend. And I’m still looking forward to that glass of champagne after I take the draught. French champagne.” Fiona McClure, metastatic stomach cancer Know More Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Website: Doctors For Assisted Dying Choice, respecting rational patient end-of-life choices Article: ‘Reasons for Requesting Physician-Assisted Suicide’ -- Angela Morrow RN, VeryWellhealth, 23 March 2020 E-book: ‘Beyond Pain: Why more resources for palliative care alone will not address the need for Voluntary Assisted Dying’ - Go Gentle Australia, Nov 2019 In this episode (in order of appearance): Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, Wim Wansink, Peter Jones Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Episode Artwork: Megan Herbert Music: James Domeyko, Aaron Gleeson, Alex Gow, Martin Peralta Special thanks to our interviewees Ron Poole, Fiona McClure, Wim Wansink and Peter Jones for giving up their precious time for these interviews. Since recording this episode, Peter and Ron have died. Our thoughts are with their loved ones. Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

No group has done more to persuade politicians to oppose assisted dying in Australia over the last 20 years than doctors. Citing their Hippocratic Oath to ‘do no harm’, they argue that giving doctors the right to ‘kill’, instead of cure, will forever damage the doctor-patient relationship. What they fight so fiercely to preserve is a world strongly influenced by Christian concepts of care, one where ‘doctor knows best’, even when it comes to the end of a person’s life. Not all doctors feel this way. In this episode, we meet a number of physicians from very different backgrounds, who think the old paternalism is not always what’s best for their patients. Dr Cameron McLaren - Photo: Juliet Lamont Dr Nick Carr - “I remember how powerful it was ... I just held her hand and I kissed her forehead and said goodbye, because it just felt right.” - Photo: Supplied Each came to voluntary assisted dying through different paths, but from similar clinical experiences: the undeniable reality that there are some people at the end of life for whom medicine, however skilfully applied, can do no more. Far from being damaged by facilitating assistance to die, the relationships they have formed with their patients along the way have been among the most profound of their careers. “I thought we were all going to do it. I think that was very naive in retrospect. When the legislation came out I thought ... you know, patients wanted this, that’s the reason it’s put in. We look after patients, we practise patient-centred care, which means we should be providing the services that they want. ” Dr Cameron McLaren Further reading Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Website: Doctors For Assisted Dying Choice, respecting rational patient end-of-life choices Article: ‘Is the Hippocratic oath still relevant to practising doctors today?’ — The BMJ, 14 December 2016 Viewpoint: ‘The Revised Declaration of Geneva: A Modern-Day Physician’s Pledge’ — The JAMA Network, 28 November 2017 Article: ‘The inescapable truth: palliative care is not enough—we can and should legislate for assisted dying’ — Dr Arun Bhaskar, The BMJ Opinion, 25 September 2019 Dr Nola Maxfield. “I think it's improved the relationship I've had with my patients.” - Photo: Supplied Dr Phillip Parente. “Views that doctors are overstepping the mark are incorrect. We're allowing patients to take control.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont In this episode In order of appearance: Mark Yates, Nick Carr, Cameron McLaren, Nola Maxfield, Peter Lange, Phillip Parente, Lisa Hogg, Odette Spruijt, Helen Lord, Lisa Hogg, David Speakman, Katie Harley Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Music: Anthurium and Brendon John Warner Episode artwork: Megan Herbert Special thanks to our interviewees Cameron McLaren, Nick Carr, Greg Mewett, Andrea Bendrups, Peter Lange, David Speakman and Phillip Parente for their time for this episode. Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

“Thou shalt not kill” - The Sixth Commandment Victoria’s Voluntary Assisted Dying law was written to allow an eligible, terminally ill patient to drink a lethal medication to end their suffering; choosing to drink being considered the ultimate voluntary act. But the law allows, in exceptional circumstances, for a doctor to intravenously administer that medication to end their patient’s life. Who would need such a thing? And what impact does it have on a doctor when they are asked to transgress the age-old commandment ‘thou shalt not kill’? Katie Harley and her father ‘Lucky’ Phil Ferrarotto. “It was like Dad designed … those last few moments and it was exactly the way he wanted it.” - Photo: Supplied In this episode, we meet oncologist Cam McLaren, who is faced with the question, “Am I capable of ending my patient’s life?” And we meet Katie Harley. Her father Phil – Cam’s patient – has had so many forms of cancer, he’s like a gothic version of the Cheshire Cat – more and more of him removed till just about all that’s left is his smile. But smile he still does. Because, despite everything, Katie's dad calls himself ‘Lucky Phil’. “Till the day I die, it'll be the most courageous thing I've ever seen anyone do. To look a man in the eye and to know that he's about to end your life and then to write him a letter and say thank you, that's courage beyond measure.” Katie Harley, Phil’s daughter Katie and Dr Cameron McLaren. “Something incredible happened between Dad and Cam. They built up a fabulous rapport.” - Photo: Juliet Lamont Further reading Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Article: 'It was kindness and it was a mercy: The doctor helping people to die’– The Age, 26 December 2019 Video and article: ‘Victoria’s euthanasia scheme sees more than 52 people use assisted dying in first six months’ – AAP/7News, 19 February 2020 Report: ‘Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board: Report of Operations January to June 2020’ – Safer Care Victoria, 31 August 2020 In this episode In order of appearance: Mark Yates, Cameron McLaren, Katie Harley, Ray Godbold, Robyn Godbold, Tara Godbold, Rory Godbold, Ella Godbold, Mariska Koster Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia. Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Episode artwork: Megan Herbert Special thanks to our interviewees Katie Harley and Cameron McLaren for their time for this episode. Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Phil’s letter to Cameron. “I am so proud of the job that you have done. And I'm eternally thankful. Best wishes for your future, mate. Phil Ferrorotto” - Photo: Juliet Lamont Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Warning: This episode of Better Off Dead contains references to suicide and self-harm. These include discussions about how some terminally ill people have tried to end their lives in the absence of voluntary assisted dying laws. We are aware of the Mindframe guidelines on appropriate language around the discussion of suicide and self-harm, and we have endeavoured to limit this detail. If you are likely to be distressed by this material, we recommend that you proceed with caution. Please have a self-care plan in place and let others know that you may be upset. Please see a list of services at the bottom of this episode page. The images from 9/11 of people jumping from the World Trade Centre to escape the searing heat of the buildings melting beneath them haunt us still. Accepting that the only choice facing these people was a choice of how they would die – death by fire, or falling into oblivion – NYC’s Chief Medical Examiner, Charles Hirsh, chose to classify their deaths, not as suicides, but as homicides. In the Victorian parliamentary debate, MPs opposed to voluntary assisted dying repeatedly described it as ‘state sanctioned suicide’. But is offering a dying person a choice about how they die the same as suicide? Perhaps the most persuasive voice that convinced MPs to legalise assisted dying was that of coroner John Olle. The lonely and brutal suicides he described to a parliamentary inquiry – of elderly and terminally ill Victorians beyond the help of palliative care, rational people supported by loving families – sent a shock wave through the parliament. In this episode we meet Lisa, whose mum Margaret was a fiercely independent 82-year-old woman dying of a rare degenerative neurological disease. The race to meet the strict eligibility requirements of the VAD law, before she lost the ability to communicate her wish to be helped to die, meant that for Margaret each waking day was filled with fear. Faced with the prospect of her illness moving faster than the law, and that she will not be able to leap free, will Margaret have no choice but to be taken by the fire? Lisa Hogg and her mother Margaret “Mum was always a person who did things on her terms.” - Photos: supplied “For the months preceding Mum initiating the VAD process, Mum would say things like, ‘I’ve worked out how to do it’. My sister would ask, ‘Do what?’ and she would say that she had worked out how she was going to kill herself. The methods included throwing herself out of bed onto the hard floor and cutting herself with scissors or a knife.” Lisa Hogg, Margaret’s daughter Further reading Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Article: ‘Dying with dignity: Coroner’s Court weighs in to euthanasia debate ahead of historic report’ – The Age 28 May, 2016 Article: ‘She died quietly and peacefully with her family around her’ – Go Gentle Australia, 5 August 2020 Video and article: ‘Lawrie’s Last Letter’ – Go Gentle Australia, 26 October 2016 Video: ‘Homily on Assisted Dying’— Bishop Tim Harris, Archdiocese of Townsville, 11 October 2020 Letter: A Pastoral Letter to the People, Clergy and Religious Catholic Communities of Queensland, Bishops’ Pastoral Letter on No Euthanasia Sunday, 11 October 2020 Report: ‘Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board: Report of Operations January to June 2020’ – Safer Care Victoria, 31 August 2020 Film: ‘The Broken Hearted’ Go Gentle Australia, August 2019 Statement: ‘Suicide” Is Not the Same as Physician Aid in Dying’ – The American Association of Suicidology, Approved October 30, 2017. A photo that says everything: VAD allowed Lisa’s mum Margaret to say goodbye, bathed in love and surrounded by her full tribe. “We kept saying to mum look at you, you created this. This is your legacy." - Photo: supplied In this episode For legal reasons, the words of Parliamentarians spoken in this episode are performed by actors. In order of appearance: Lisa Hogg, Lawrie Daniel, Rebecca Daniel, Tim Harris, Mark Coleridge, Nick Goiran. Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle. Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Episode artwork: Megan Herbert Special thanks to our interviewees Lisa Hogg and the Daniel family for their time for this episode. Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. © Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. If you or someone you know needs support please contact one of the following 24/7 support services: Lifeline on 13 11 14, The Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine Australia (1300 789 978), or Kids Helpline (1800 551 800). If you are at risk of harm to yourself or others, contact emergency services immediately by dialling Triple 0. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Spurred by watching his own father die painfully, in 2015 Andrew Denton set out to investigate – why are good people being forced to die bad deaths? Five years later, Victoria is the first state in Australia to have passed a voluntary assisted dying law. In the first year of the law’s operation, over 120 people sought assistance to die. More than a year into its operation, it is possible to look at the hypothetical harms (and genuine fears) raised by those opposed to the law and compare them with the actual experience of assisted dying. Paul, Michelle and Jean Caliste, with a photo of Robbie — Paul, Michelle and Jean Caliste. Photo: Michael Gleeson, ABC News supplied by Go Gentle Australia In the first episode of season two of Better Off Dead, we meet the family of 36-year-old Robbie Caliste. Robbie was diagnosed with motor neurone disease (MND) in the same year the Victorian parliament endorsed medical assistance to die. In November 2019, he became the youngest person to die under the law. Robbie and his parents Jean and Michelle help us understand the word which, more than any other, underpins what this law is all about; a word beyond ‘pain’ – suffering. “He didn't want Motor Neuron Disease to win ... He didn't want to be literally that prisoner in the body and looking at you with his eyes. It had done enough damage to him and he knew what the outcome was going to be.” – Jean and Michelle Caliste Robbie Caliste with his mother and brother — Photo: Supplied Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites. If you or someone you know needs support please contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). If you are at risk of harm to yourself or others, contact emergency services immediately by dialling Triple 0. Know more Visit Go Gentle Australia gogentleaustralia.org.au Article: ‘More than 130 Victorians apply to end their lives in first six months of state's assisted dying laws’ – ABC News, 19 February 2020 Article and audio: ‘Twelve months of voluntary assisted dying in Victoria’ - The Conversation Hour, ABC Radio National, 15 June 2020 Report: ‘Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board: Report of Operations January to June 2020’ – Safer Care Victoria, 31 August 2020 Article and video: ‘Spotlight on Carers: A Reality and a Labour of Love’ by Jean Caliste – MND Victoria, 19 October 2020 Photo: Supplied In this episode In order of appearance: Jean Caliste, Pip Denton, Jo Denton, Spencer Ratcliffe, Shayne Higson, Ella Godbold, Robyn Godbold, Heather Bell, Rory Godbold, Shayne Higson, Karen Hitchcock, Michelle Caliste, Peter Abetz, Stephen Parnis, Nancy Elliott, Kylie Monaghan, Chris Morgan, John Daffy, Ian Haines, Natasha Michael, Mark Coleridge, Helen Lord. Better Off Dead season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia. Learn more about Go Gentle Australia’s work. Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Episode Transcript: Alice Boyle Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Episode artwork: Megan Herbert Special thanks to our interviewees Jean and Michelle Caliste for their time for this episode. Footage supplied courtesy of Seven Network. All rights reserved. © Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or follow via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your stories Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Andrew Denton investigates the stories behind Victoria’s landmark Voluntary Assisted Dying (VAD) law: Who seeks to use it, and why? Who are the doctors stepping forward to help them? And how does the church continue to resist a law it describes as ‘evil’? Co-produced by Go Gentle Australia and the Wheeler Centre, season two of Better Off Dead looks at what happened in Victoria after the legislation came into effect in June 2019. "It’s not an easy process. But neither should it be. This is the ending of a life. And it ought to be treated in a serious manner – because it's a serious thing to do." – Former Supreme Court Justice, Betty King, now Chair of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Review Board. Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit Conversations Matter or BeyondBlue. If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). In this episode In order of appearance: Andrew Denton, Katie Harley, Dr Kristin Cornell, Jean Caliste, Dr Greg Mewett, Dr Cameron McLaren, Professor Michael Dooley, Former Justice Betty King QC, Molly Carlile AM, Archbishop Mark Coleridge, Dr Andrea Bendrups, Lisa Hogg. Better Off Dead  season two is produced by the Wheeler Centre and Go Gentle Australia Writer, Co-Producer and Host: Andrew Denton (Go Gentle Australia) Series Co-Producer and Script Editor: Bethany Atkinson-Quinton (The Wheeler Centre) Associate Producers: Kiki Paul and Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) Audio Editor and Engineer: Martin Peralta Production Assistant: Alex Gow (The Wheeler Centre) Marketing: Emily Harms (The Wheeler Centre), Steve Offner (Go Gentle Australia) and Frankie Bennett (Go Gentle Australia) Publicity: Debbie McInnes (DMCPR Media) Episode Pages: Mia McAuslan (The Wheeler Centre) Commissioning Editors: Kiki Paul (Go Gentle Australia) and Caro Llewellyn (The Wheeler Centre) Theme music: ‘Loydie’s Angel’, written and performed by Jordan Laser Listen to Better Off Dead season one here, and subscribe in iTunes, or via your favourite podcast app. #BetterOffDeadpod Your Stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Transcript Download a transcript of this episode in PDF format. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

20 years ago, four dying people were able to access the Northern Territory’s world-first law to help them die more mercifully, before the law itself was extinguished. By the end of 2016, over 100 million people on three continents will be able to access such laws – the most recent places to adopt them being America’s most populous state, California, and Canada. Since that Northern Territory law was overturned in 1997, nearly 30 attempts to create a new one here in Australia have failed. But as the tide of history turns in favour of assisted dying, how much longer can our politicians continue to ignore the call for change? Bob Hawke, left, and Heather Bell — Photo credits: Bob Hawke by Eva Rinaldi (CC-BY-SA); Heather Bell, supplied The old arguments that have held such sway – about the elderly and the vulnerable being unsafe under these laws – no longer hold. Over a decade of experience in Europe, and nearly two decades in America, have shown us that the safeguards do work: that good laws can be created to help the few, and protect the many. In this final episode, drawing on what has worked best overseas, I’m going to tell you what I think that law for assisted dying in Australia should look like. Plus, we’ll hear from two significant stakeholders who both support a change in our law. One, a former Prime Minister. The other, the one major medical body that does officially support assisted dying. Tellingly, they’re the ones who see the suffering of patients every day and up close – the nurses. 'I think it is absurd that euthanasia is not legal within this country. It doesn't meet any requirements of morality or good sense.' Former Prime Minister of Australia, Bob Hawke Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites. If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Listen Better Off Dead: Interview with Richard Di Natale Embed player In March 2016, Australian Greens leader Richard Di Natale put forward a bill, co-sponsored by representatives from all the major parties, aimed at restoring the right of the Northern Territory, ACT and Norfolk Island to legislate for voluntary euthanasia. Here, he discusses the reasoning behind the bill – and the tactics required to create political change on this issue in Australia. Know more Video: 'Q&A: Facing Death' – Australian Broadcasting Corporation, 9 November 2015 Article: 'Bob Hawke calls for euthanasia to be made legal in Australia', by Calla Wahlquist – Guardian, 12 April 2016 Podcast episode: 'Andrew Denton asks, can Australia legislate for better death?' – Conversations with Richard Fidler, Australian Broadcasting Corporation, 23 February 2016 Research paper: 'How should Australia regulate voluntary euthanasia and assisted suicide?', by Ben White and Lindy Willmott – Australia21, November 2012 Essay: 'The right to die or the right to kill?: The argument against euthanasia', by Karen Hitchcock – The Monthly, December 2015–January 2016 Letter: In response to Karen Hitchcock's article (above), by Ian Maddocks – The Monthly, February 2016 Opinion: 'Assisted dying: the difficult conversation we need to have', by Ian McPhee – Age, 2 February 2016 Video: 'Andrew Denton has a new lease on death' – from Sunrise, Yahoo!7, 22 February 2016 Article: 'Medically assisted death weeks away in Canada', by Susan Delacourt – ABC News, 2 March 2016 Article: 'Push to restore voluntary euthanasia in NT, ACT and Norfolk Island', by Helen Davidson – Guardian, 1 March 2016 Speech: 'Voluntary Euthanasia', by Andrew Leigh MP – as spoken in House of Representatives, Parliament of Australia, 17 August 2015 In this episode Bob Hawke Doctors: Cathy, Vic, Andrew, Sarah and Paul Coral Levett Karen Hitchcock Heather Bell Richard Chye Leigh Dolin Michael Williams Marshall Perron Nancy Elliott Paul Russell Liz Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Hope There's Someone' (Antony and the Johnsons), 'Death Don't Have No Mercy' (Reverend Gary Davis), 'Further On (Up the Road)' (Johnny Cash), 'Into My Arms' (Nick Cave), 'Underneath the Stars' (Kate Rusby), 'The Parting Glass' (The Wailin' Jennys) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary and Jon Tjhia. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Paul Russell — Photo: Supplied My search for the truth about assisted dying began when I was invited to attend the HOPE International Symposium in Adelaide, featuring anti-euthanasia speakers from around the world.* There, I heard dire warnings about what was happening in Belgium, the Netherlands and Oregon – where laws to help people die already exist. At their heart lay two key accusations: that the safeguards don’t work, and that the elderly and disabled were threatened. I took careful note. Many months later – having taken off overseas to see if their warnings held true, and spoken to experts worldwide – I sat down with HOPE’s founder and director, Paul Russell, to talk through what I’d learned. * HOPE director Paul Russell has pointed out that he did not invite Andrew Denton to attend a HOPE symposium in May 2015 but rather that he agreed for Andrew to attend. We are happy to correct the record. 'I think what concerns me most is the stuff that you almost can't prove, you know.' Paul Russell, founder and director, HOPE: preventing euthanasia & assisted suicide Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites. If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Know more Editorial: 'Final certainty' – Economist, 27 June 2015 (source) Opinion: 'The tide is turning in Australia's euthanasia debate', by Peter Singer – Age, 2 March 2016 In this episode Paul Russell Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode is 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Camilla Hannan. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Of all the arguments against assisted dying, the most heartless I’ve heard is this: Suicide is legal. Why do you need assistance to do something that you can do yourself? Every time I hear that thought expressed (and I’ve heard it more than once while making this podcast), I’m astonished at the ease with which the people saying it manage to completely overlook the suffering of the people they’re talking about. In this episode, we’re going to meet one of those people: father of two, Lawrie Daniel. At 50, and stricken with MS, what does it mean to Lawrie to be told, ‘suicide is legal – what’s stopping you?’ Lawrie and Rebecca Daniel at home — Photo: Andrew Denton 'Through MS, I've pretty much lost my fear of dying, because sometimes I think there are things that are worse than death.' Lawrie Daniel Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites. If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Know more Review: 'Book review: Kevin Yuill, "Assisted Suicide: The Liberal, Humanist Case Against Legalization"', by Iain Brassington – Journal of Medical Ethics blog, 3 July 2013 In this episode Kevin Yuill Lawrie Daniel Rebecca Daniel Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Loneliness #3 (Night Talking)' (Arcade Fire), 'Our Own Roof' (Nils Frahm), 'All Farewells Are Sudden' (A Winged Victory for the Sullen), 'They Move on Tracks of Never-ending Light' (This Will Destroy You) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The repeated call by opponents of assisted dying is that the elderly and the vulnerable must be protected from coercion. In this, they are right – and there are many safeguards built into existing laws overseas which do exactly that. But what of the elderly described in this episode by two of Australia’s coroners: rational men and women from loving families – who, faced with an irreversible and painful decline into death, are deciding to kill themselves violently instead? Left: Joan Upton (with cake) pictured with her children Greg, Annette and Robert. Right: Philip Nitschke — Photos: Supplied If the law offers them no other way to end their suffering, who could be more coerced than them? And yet, on these vulnerable Australians – including beloved mothers, fathers, partners and grandparents – the opponents are silent. This silence needs to be challenged. It’s time we talked about Australia’s dark little secret. 'They all know it – including doctors. They know that this person is screaming for help but no one is going to answer this call. Not in this society. So they have got to die alone.' Victorian Coroner John Olle, appearing before the Parliament of Victoria's 2015 Inquiry into End Of Life Choices Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites. If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Listen Better Off Dead: Interview with Frances Coombe Embed player Robert ‘Brownie’ Brown was a much-loved and prominent figure in South Australia’s environmental conservation movement. Faced with a life of physical decline, where he could no longer do the things that were important to him, Brownie made the decision to end his life. Unusually, the 94-year-old left a note for the coroner – emphasising that he didn’t want depression listed as the cause of his suicide. Andrew spoke with South Australian Voluntary Euthanasia Society president Frances Coombe – a woman to whom Brownie was a close friend and mentor for over six decades – about the grim choice being made by many elderly Australians. Know more Transcript: 'Standing committee on legal and social issues: Inquiry into end-of-life choices' (PDF), including statements by coroner John Olle – Parliament of Victoria, 7 October 2015 (source) Interactive: 'The big sleep', by Julia Medew – Sydney Morning Herald, 12 January 2016 Article: 'Shaw family calls for Victorian Government to consider assisted death laws', by Julia Medew – Age, 16 February 2016 Article: 'Brighton couple found dead in 'suicide pact'', by Lucie Morris-Marr – Herald Sun, 13 November 2015 (paywall) Opinion: 'Somebody kill my grandmother. Please', by Sian Prior – Age, 13 November 2015 Opinion: 'My mother euthanased herself. Was it empowerment, or despair?', by Nikki Gemmell – Australian, 16 January 2016 Opinion: 'Andrew Denton has fallen for the doctors' spin on the euthanasia debate', by Fiona Stewart – Brisbane Times, 8 November 2015 Article: 'Philip Nitschke: I don't judge people at all if they want to die', by Melissa Davey – Guardian, 27 December 2015 Article: 'SA coroner calls for debate about elderly people who end their lives alone', by Simon Royal – ABC News, 7 February 2015 In this episode Joan Upton Annette Upton Marshall Perron Mark Johns John Olle (re-enacted by Andrew Martin) Philip Nitschke Kevin Yuill Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'I Am Piano' (Peter Broderick), 'Quiet' (This Will Destroy You), 'Says' (Nils Frahm), 'She/Swimming' (Moon Ate the Dark), 'Portrait Gallery' (Luke Howard), 'They Move on Tracks of Never-ending Light' (This Will Destroy You) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary and Jon Tjhia. Thank you Thanks to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Assisted dying has no more committed opponent than the Catholic Church. They have thrown resources, and the full weight of their political influence, against it wherever it has been proposed. That’s why the words of Sydney’s Archbishop Anthony Fisher – one of Australia’s most senior Catholic clerics, and a man who commands the ear of many politicians – are worth listening to. Archbishop Anthony Fisher, debating ethicist Peter Singer at Sydney Town Hall, 13 August 2015 — Source: YouTube Listen closely, and what you’ll hear is a masterclass in FUD: Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. The same seeds sown by opponents of assisted dying to great effect down the years. What lies inside those little seeds of FUD? In this episode – for the first time – we’re going to find out. 'I think it's almost unheard of that the elderly feel more as a burden and the opposite is true. They feel empowered by this, it strengthens them.' Joeri Veen, spokesperson for ANBO – a peak body representing the Dutch elderly – discussing the impact of euthanasia laws on ANBO’s members Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites. If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890). Hear more Listen Better Off Dead: interview with Tom Keneally Embed player Tom Keneally is one of Australia’s best-loved and most successful authors – and a former Catholic seminarian. Here, he discusses the belief of some Catholics that pain can purify, and that suffering redeems the soul. Know more Video: 'Q&A: Facing Death' – Australian Broadcasting Corporation, 9 November 2015 Article: 'FactCheck Q&A: Were 550 babies killed last year under Dutch euthanasia laws?', by Colleen Cartwright (reviewed by Lorana Bartels and Jan F. Koper) – The Conversation, 16 November 2015 Opinion: 'Assisted dying: Sorting the facts from the half-truths and the misleading statements', by Ross Fitzgerald – Age, 15 December 2015 Video: 'Lord Carey on Assisted Dying – July 2014' – Christina Summers, 19 August 2015 Website: Christians Supporting Choice for Voluntary Euthanasia Video: 'Euthanasia debate: Professor Peter Singer versus Archbishop Anthony Fisher OP' – Sydney University Catholic Society, 13 August 2015 In this episode Anthony Fisher Nancy Elliott Catherine Glenn Foster Nick Cooling Alex Schadenberg John Fleming Henk Reitsema Kevin Yuill Joan Hume Illya Soffer Pierre Gyselinck Bob Joondeph Joeri Veen Mie Moerenhout Cheryll Brounstein Eduard Verhagen Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Untitled #8 (Popplagith)' (Sigur Rós), 'Hold Me Through' (Luke Howard), 'I Might be Wrong' (Radiohead) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly). Your stories If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here. Further information Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre. Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary and Jon Tjhia. Thank you Thanks to field producer Emily Sexton, and to Paul Kelly and Sony ATV for the use of his song ‘Forty Eight Angels’. The series Subscribe in iTunes, or your favourite podcast app. #betteroffdeadpod Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox in partnership with the Wheeler Centre. It is written and created by Andrew Denton for Thought Fox. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.