How does a startup become the largest provider of electricity in the UK in less than a decade? What is locational pricing and how could it encourage more renewables? And is it possible to achieve a zero-carbon electricity system by 2030? Welcome to the first episode of Season 13 of Cleaning Up, in which Michael Liebreich sits down with Greg Jackson, the founder and CEO of Octopus Energy, to uncover the incredible story behind the company's rapid growth and its transformation into a global energy powerhouse. Greg and Michael explore how Octopus Energy has gone from a small startup to the largest energy supplier in the UK, directly serving over 7 million households, and with a presence in 8 of the top 10 competitive energy markets worldwide. Greg reveals the key drivers behind Octopus Energy's success, including the innovative Kraken platform that powers their operations, the strategic acquisitions that fuelled their expansion, and the company's unwavering focus on customer-centric solutions during the recent energy crisis. The story doesn't end there. Greg shares his ambitious vision for the future, whether or not its possible to reach 1 billion Kraken licenses by 2030 and the company's groundbreaking work in areas like locational pricing, electric vehicle integration, and the electrification of home heating. Leadership Circle We are delighted to announce the Cleaning Up Leadership Circle, and our founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, Eurelectic, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle and how to become a member, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live Links & More Episode 32: Building the Billion-Customer Energy Company — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9kHNMyH7bw Episode 154: Green Heat (and Cooling) Under our Feet — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpHa-uU6lc Michael at the Imperial College Energy Futures Lab, and the subsequent panel discussion with Greg Jackson — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Q9cuF8zKg Octopus Energy customers provide 108MW of grid flexibility in first ‘Saving Session’ — https://octopus.energy/press/believe-it-or-watt-octopus-energy-customers-provide-108mw-of-grid-flexibility-in-first-saving-session-equivalent-of-a-gas-power-station/

In the final episode of Season 12, hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington reflect on the key conversations and developments in the net-zero transition over the past three months, including: China's leadership in green finance and the role of air quality issues in driving climate action The rapid growth of the solar industry and its potential to meet global electricity demand The progress and challenges around electric vehicles, battery recycling, and the need for a holistic approach to energy storage The potential of thermal batteries for storing excess renewable energy The debates around engineering solutions like direct air capture and synthetic proteins The politics of climate change, the UK election results, the EU's hydrogen plans, and what might happen in the US The intersection of fashion, sustainability, and climate change We'll be back for Season 13 of Cleaning Up at the beginning of September. Thanks so much for listening, and see you then! In the meantime, please share this podcast with a friend, colleague, family, or whoever you think might enjoy it. Links and more: Listen to and watch every episode of season 12: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe8ZTD7dMaaAHKRt7GpWNkrhhrXv2-KoR Jim Mellon of Agronomics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqFPic5iqds Jonathan Maxwell of Sustainable Development Capital: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OTbyOxYUpg Lauri Myllyvirta, co-founder and lead analyst at CREA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqjvCeR9VLg

The solar industry has experienced a meteoric rise over the past two decades, growing from a small cottage industry to one of the leading technologies in the energy transition. It’s not been a smooth ride, and there’ve been plenty of bankruptcies on the way, from Solyndra to Suntech, but more than half a terawatt of new solar is now being built each year and the industry is still growing rapidly. So how did we get here, and how far do we have to go? Michael Liebreich is joined by BloombergNEF lead solar analyst Jenny Chase to chart the course of the solar industry, do a little mythbusting, and ask what next for this multibillion dollar industry. Is China’s dominance of solar a problem? Is solar still too expensive for developing countries? And when will we get free electricity? Links: Jenny’s Book - Solar Power Finance Without the Jargon The Usain Bolt of Solar Power - Ep130: Paddy Padmanathan 650 Leagues of HVDC Under the Sea - Ep92: Simon Morrish Auke Hoekstra’s IEA underestimates chart

Who are the merchants of doubt and how can their narrative be countered? How much money does it cost to get someone to take action on climate change? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington is joined by John Marshall, the founder of the Potential Energy Coalition, a marketing firm that uses data-driven marketing techniques to accelerate the energy transition and climate action. They discuss: How John transitioned from a career in Madison Avenue marketing to founding a non-profit focused on climate change, inspired by his son. Potential Energy Coalition's use of data-driven marketing strategies to identify the most effective messaging and framing to motivate climate action, including leveraging loss aversion and emphasising what people love and fear losing. The importance of using marketing to shape the climate narrative, counter disinformation, and create political space for climate policies. How marketing can be used to promote clean energy solutions like electric vehicles and heat pumps, and the role of the nonprofit sector in supporting pro-climate policies and infrastructure. Insights on global marketing strategies for climate action, highlighting the need to tailor messages to local markets while maintaining a unifying narrative. Links & More: Potential Energy Coalition website John's TED talk The Schoolbus Ad Cleaning Up Episode 141 with Naomi Oreskes

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with mechanical engineer and YouTube creator Dr Rosemary "Rosie" Barnes to discuss the critical role of engineering in addressing climate change. Rosie shares insights from her work developing clean energy technologies and her popular channel "Engineering with Rosie," where she tackles topics like wind turbine design, the hydrogen debate, and the nuclear power discussion in Australia through the lens of engineering. Rosie and Michael dive into the engineering challenges and solutions driving the energy transition, from optimising wind turbine size to navigating the politics around nuclear power. They also explore why engineers' voices are often overlooked in the climate conversation, and Rosie offers practical advice for the next generation of women in STEM fields. Read/watch more: Rosie's YouTube Channel Michael on Engineering with Rosie Are Vertical Axis Wind Turbines Better? How Big Things (Should) Get Done - Ep128: Prof. Bent Flyvbjerg GenCost by CSIRO Australia's Nuclear Future - Centre for Independent Studies

Electric vehicles are finally becoming more mainstream, but this hasn’t stopped a flood of negative stories and political attempts to scare people away from making the switch to better, more cost efficient vehicles. So is the EV revolution now inevitable? Bryony Worthington sits down with Ben Nelmes, the Chief Executive of New Automotive, a UK-based not for profit focused on the clean energy transition in road transport. Ben shares his insights on the UK and European electric vehicle (EV) markets, including: How data and evidence can shape policy debates around EVs and other clean technologies The latest trends in EV costs, range, and charging infrastructure The politics of EVs in the UK and Europe, including differences between political parties The impact of EVs on government revenues and potential reforms to vehicle taxation The role of EVs in integrating renewable energy onto the grid Read more/links: New AutoMotive EV Cost Saving Calculator Global EV Tracker

With the UK general election tomorrow, the Cleaning Up team sits down with Dr Simon Evans of Carbon Brief to run through each party's manifesto, and what they say about UK climate and energy policy. With Labour widely predicted to win, will the UK's become an international leader on climate once more? How will GB Energy work? And where will all the money come from to fund the investments needed to turn the UK into a clean energy power house. Dr Simon Evans is the deputy editor and senior policy editor at Carbon Brief, a UK-based website covering the latest developments in climate science, climate policy and energy policy. Read more: Carbon Brief Cleaning Up Episode 131 with Tzeporah Berman Cleaning Up Episode 25 with Bryony Worthington Cleaning Up Episode 30 with Claire Perry O'Neill The Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Initiative The Beyond Oil & Gas Alliance

As the world transitions away from fossil fuels, one of the biggest challenges is decarbonizing industrial processes that require consistent, reliable sources of energy to produce high-temperatures. Typically these processes run on fossil gas, but now thermal batteries offer a solution by using electricity to store renewable energy in the form of heat. Anand Gopal, Executive Director of Policy Research at Californian think tank Energy Innovation, joins Baroness Bryony Worthington to discuss his team's research on using thermal batteries to provide heat for manufacturing. Or as he calls them, hot rocks in a box. By storing intermittent solar or wind energy as the heat of molten salts or crushed rocks, thermal batteries can deliver reliable heat on-demand. While the tech is almost at commercial availability, there's still one big obstacle: cost. In many countries it is still much cheaper to use gas over electricity, and that makes powering up thermal batteries uneconomical. So what needs to be done to employ them at scale? And will they take the wind out of hydrogen's sails? Find out on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. Read more: Energy Innovation Industrial Thermal Batteries: Decarbonizing U.S. Industry While Supporting a High-Renewables Grid Energy Innovation's report on electric vehicle leasing Energy Innovation's report on electric vs gas cars Energy Innovation's report on industrial heat in China Energy Innovation's report on electrification of industrial heat

Depending on who you ask, methane is either a useful transition fuel to a low-carbon future, or a super polluter. The science of methane says that for natural gas to have a lower climate footprint than other fossil fuels, particularly coal, there can be leakage of no more than 3.2% from end to end. Yet studies across the US show wildly different leakage rates. One of the most influential, by Robert Howarth of Cornell University, puts it at 4.8%, making methane worse for the environment than coal. The EPA tells a different story, and says leakage rates are just 0.93%. All of this really matters for the climate, especially since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The US has become the world's biggest producer and exporter of natural gas, and hundreds of billions of dollars have been invested globally on the premise that natural gas is a cleaner stop-gap between our fossil present and our low-carbon future. So who's right? And how can we find ways to reduce those methane emissions in either case. Grant Swartzwelder, founder of OTA Environmental Solutions and ESG Dynamics, based in Dallas, Texas, joins Cleaning Up to tease out the problem. More links/resources: OTA Environmental Solutions - https://otaenvironmentalsolutions.com ESG Dynamics - https://esg-dynamics.com Robert Howarth study into US methane leakage rates - https://www.research.howarthlab.org/documents/Howarth2022_EM_Magazine_methane.pdf International Energy Agency methane tracker 2024 - https://www.iea.org/reports/global-methane-tracker-2024 Cleaning Up Episode 157 - Leaking Methane Needs an Urgent Fix - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIK8Z7oZMps Cleaning Up Episode 146 - Jason Anderson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWUzOZmJSlI

Has science cracked the code on mass producing realistic meat substitutes? Or are lab-gown alternative proteins an impossible dream? In this week's episode of Cleaning Up, Baroness Bryony Worthington sits down with president of the Good Food Institute, Bruce Friedrich, to explore the future of food. Friedrich details his vision for a more sustainable food system through technologies like plant-based and cultivated meat and outlines the promising progress and significant challenges remaining in scaling these novel proteins. Worthington and Friedrich debate the roles of policy, public opinion, and big agriculture in determining whether alternative proteins can truly transform our food system or remain forever niche. Links and more: The Good Food Institute (https://gfi.org) TEA of cultivated meat. Future projections for different scenarios (https://cedelft.eu/publications/tea-of-cultivated-meat/) A new land dividend: the opportunity of alternative proteins in Europe (https://green-alliance.org.uk/publication/a-new-land-dividend-the-opportunity-of-alternative-proteins-in-europe/) Recipe for a Livable Planet: Achieving Net Zero Emissions in the Agrifood System: (https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/entities/publication/406c71a3-c13f-49cd-8f3f-a071715858fb) UNEP Report on alternative proteins (https://www.unep.org/resources/whats-cooking-assessment-potential-impacts-selected-novel-alternatives-conventional) Episode 136 with Jim Mellon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqFPic5iqds)

As everyone knows, battery prices are plummeting and manufacturing volumes are soaring, whether for EVs or for grid-connected storage. And everyone knows there's a problem: only 5% of lithium-ion batteries are recycled. The rest go to landfill, right? Wrong. This week's guest on Cleaning Up is the world's preeminent expert on battery recycling. Hans Eric Melin is the Founder and Managing Director of Circular Energy Storage. Circular Energy Storage is a London-based data collection and analytics consultancy focused on the lithium-ion battery end-of-life market. They help companies and organisations in the entire battery value chain to take better decisions in everything that relates to reuse and recycling of lithium-ion batteries. They do this by continuously collecting, analysing and publishing data from all parts of the value chain worldwide and by working actively with customers in their strategy and business development. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and more: Circular Energy Storage: https://circularenergystorage.com/about Hans' LinkedIn post on the false narratives around lithium-ion battery recycling rates: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-rate-other-untruths-battery-recycling-hans-eric-melin-m5lde Hans' more extensive research report explaining the real rates: https://www.energimyndigheten.se/globalassets/forskning--innovation/overgripande/state-of-the-art-in-reuse-and-recycling-of-lithium-ion-batteries-2019.pdf The 2023 Battery Materials Review Yearbook, featuring a chapter authored by Hans: https://www.batterymaterialsreview.com/products/ The 2016 paper Hans mentioned, featuring the 95% landfill rate: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11837-016-1994-y

Last week the leading lights of Europe's electricity industry gathered for the annual Eurelectric Power Summit at the Lagonissi Beach Resort just outside Athens. The conference - under the hashtag this year of #lights on - lasted two days and covered the key issues facing Europe's and the world's power sectors. Two topics in particular stood out: the need to accelerate the build out of transmission, and the pressures and opportunities offered by digitization and AI. At the event, Eurelectric published a brace of reports on these two topics. On the final day of the conference, Michael caught up with Leonhard Birnbaum, Chairman and CEO of German utility and distribution grid operator E.ON and President of Eurelectric, on a sunny and windy terrace just outside the conference centre to discuss all this and more. Leonhard began his professional career at McKinsey in Düsseldorf. After holding various positions, he was Senior Partner for the energy and industrial sector. In 2008, he joined RWE AG and was appointed to the Board of Management the same year. He served as Chief Strategy Officer and as RWE Group’s Chief Commercial Officer until 2013, when he was appointed as member of the Board of Management of E.ON SE and took on a variety of responsibilities within the Board. From 2018 until 2021 he was responsible for the innogy integration project, and from 2019 to 2020, he was also Chairman of the Board of Management of innogy SE. In 2021, he was appointed to his current role as CEO of E.ON SE, in which he is responsible for Communications & Political Affairs, Corporate Audit, Strategy, Group and Executive HR, HSE & Sustainability, Legal & Compliance and Nuclear Coordination. He is also Vice-President of the Executive Committee of BDEW, the German Association of Energy and Water Industries, a member of the Executive Committee of the Federation of German Industries (BDI) and President of Eurelectric, the European Electricity Association, and Vice Chair of the World Energy Council. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and more: Eurelectric: https://www.eurelectric.org/ E.ON: https://www.eon.com/en.html Eurelectric Power Summit 2024 - LightsOn: https://powersummit2024.eurelectric.org/ Eurelectric's new report - Grids for Speed: https://powersummit2024.eurelectric.org/grids-for-speed/ Eurelectric's new report - Wired for Tomorrow: https://powersummit2024.eurelectric.org/wired-for-tomorrow/El Electrify Almost Everything for Net-Zero - Ep34: Kristian Ruby: https://www.cleaningup.live/episode-34-kristian-ruby/

China's policies that direct capital towards cleaner industries have been game changing, and this week we're continuing the China theme, sharing two conversations Bryony had earlier this month at a conference at Xiamen University in Fujian Province. China's role in the clean energy transition could not be more important. The think tank Ember's latest report on the state of the global electricity transition states: over half of the world's new wind and solar power capacity last year was added in China, and together with hydro and nuclear, clean electricity in China now meets 35% of their electricity demand. And yet, the scale and the nature of the Chinese economy is so enormous it's hard to grasp, the majority of which is still powered by roughly 1000 gigawatts of coal-fired power stations, half of the global total. The focus of the conference was on a specific lever that could help China further along its decarbonisation path: the repowering of existing coal stations with clean sources of heat. Bryony's first guest, Staffan Qvist is a published academic, co-author of the book A Bright Future, and founder of a number of companies dedicated to the clean energy transition. He's been studying this concept of coal repowering since he first co-authored papers on the subject with Polish colleagues in 2019. Bryony's second guest is Assistant Professor Yaoli Zhang of Xiamen University, a thermal generation engineer by training who later "repowered" himself and switched to nuclear engineering. He currently oversees a team researching the repairing of coal in China from both a practical and economic perspective. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and more: How China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma Jun: https://www.cleaningup.live/how-china-became-a-green-finance-superpower-ep160-dr-ma-jun/ The 2019 book Staffan co-authored - A Bright Future: https://brightfuturebook.com The March 2024 US Department of Energy guide on converting coal-fired power plants to nuclear power: https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/8-things-know-about-converting-coal-plants-nuclear-power ...and the associated press release: https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/doe-study-finds-replacing-coal-plants-nuclear-plants-could-bring-hundreds-more-local The 2022 Paper Dr Zhang and Staffan co-authored on the potential of repowering China's CFPPs with nuclear: https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v15y2022i3p1072-d739738.html A recent IAEA article on repurposing CFPPs to nuclear: https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/repurposing-coal-power-plant-sites-with-low-carbon-nuclear

The 5th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial in Tokyo announced that by 2030, the world would produce and use 90 million tonnes of renewable and low-carbon hydrogen. Then, last year, the 6th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial not only reiterated the 90 million tonne target, but went further, promising that the overall market for hydrogen would grow to 150 million tonnes by 2030. All very exciting, and it helped to ensure that hydrogen was one of the hot topics at COP 28 in Dubai a few months later. But these targets are unachievable. The issue is simple: it's money. The biggest challenge facing low emission hydrogen is that it is expensive to produce, expensive to transport, expensive to store, expensive to distribute, and expensive to use. Whether you're switching existing users to clean hydrogen or pushing hydrogen into sectors where it's not currently used, it takes money - and lots of it. In this week's episode of Cleaning Up, we find how much and how much more governments would have to spend for hydrogen to live up to its hype. This audio blog is adapted from a piece Michael wrote at the end of last year for BloombergNEF, entitled "Clean Hydrogen's Missing Trillions", which estimated that hitting the Hydrogen Energy Ministerial target of 90 million tonnes of clean energy by 2030 would require subsidies of at least $2.3 trillion to be on the table right now, while the actual figure at the end of last year was 1/10th of that. Although the figures have changed a bit since then, the message remains the same: the subsidy gap remains in the multiple trillions of dollars. It should not therefore be surprising that the news is full of projects being cancelled and delayed. In fact, that will be one of the main hydrogen stories through to 2030 and beyond. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Find our archive of over 160 hours of conversations with extraordinary climate leaders at https://cleaningup.live. Links Michael's December 2023 BloombergNEF piece - "Clean Hydrogen's Missing Trillions", on which this audio blog is based: https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-clean-hydrogens-missing-trillions/ Michael's September 2023 BloombergNEF Piece - "The Five Horsemen of the Transition": https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder/ Michael's December 2022 BloombergNEF piece - "The Unbearable Lightness of Hydrogen": https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-the-unbearable-lightness-of-hydrogen/ The Chair's Summary of the 6th Hydrogen Energy Ministerial: https://hem-2023.nedo.go.jp/wp-content/themes/suiso2023--THEME/files/charis-summary-en.pdf The US National Petroleum Council Report - "Harnessing Hydrogen": https://harnessinghydrogen.npc.org The PwC Report - "Navigating the Global Hydrogen Ecosystem": https://www.strategyand.pwc.com/de/en/industries/energy-utilities/navigating-the-hydrogen-ecosystem.html The IEA's 2023 Net Zero Roadmap: https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/13dab083-08c3-4dfd-a887-42a3ebe533bc/NetZeroRoadmap_AGlobalPathwaytoKeepthe1.5CGoalinReach-2023Update.pdf The IEA's Global Hydrogen Review: https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/8d434960-a85c-4c02-ad96-77794aaa175d/GlobalHydrogenReview2023.pdf Related Episodes Audioblog 11 - The Five Horsemen of the Transition: https://www.cleaningup.live/audioblog-11-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder-1/ Audioblog 8- The Unbearable Lightness of Hydrogen: https://www.cleaningup.live/cleaning-up-audioblog-episode-8-the-unbearable-lightness-of-hydrogen/

Up this week is Simon Holmes à Court, the Australian investor and philanthropist with a passion for using data to change the world. In 2022, the federal elections in Australia delivered an upset, as around a third of the electorate turned their back on the established parties and voted in seven new independent MPs taking the total to 10. Simon was responsible for a crowdfunding initiative - Climate 200 - that supported 23 candidates in all, pledging to act on climate, political integrity and gender discrimination. He remains very involved in the challenge of pivoting Australia from a fossil fuel based economy to a clean energy superpower. Simon is an energy analyst, clean-tech investor, climate philanthropist, and director of the Smart Energy Council and the Australian Environmental Grantmakers Network. He was co-founder of the Australian Wind Alliance and inaugural chair of the Melbourne Energy Institute’s Advisory Board. He is a respected commentator on the economic, political and engineering aspects of Australia’s energy transition. Links: Simon's 2022 book The Big Teal: https://publishing.monash.edu/product/the-big-teal/ Simon's ABC interview on the success of Climate 200 in the wake of the 2022 elections: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Mhz6b7cg4 Simon's 2021 talk - Independents and Climate - The Hope to End the Lost Decade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN_-1eLbLL8 Simon's 2018 op-ed which triggered his expulsion from Kooyong 200: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/09/why-liddell-is-likely-to-close-in-2022-and-why-you-shouldnt-care The Superpower Institute, working for Australian leadership in the transition: https://www.superpowerinstitute.com.au/

How can we build a more united climate movement? What should be the role of geoengineering? And how can indigenous voices be brought into the climate conversation? Bryony puts these questions to model, actor, director, ambassador and businesswoman, Lily Cole. Lily's career began at age 14 when she was recruited as a model, pitching her into the high-octane world of fashion. She remains a self-confessed geek, however, and completed her studies including a degree from Cambridge University. In 2016, she started researching a book ‘Who Cares Wins,’ which was published in 2020. In both the book and the podcast that followed, she gives a platform to a wide range of people, always seeking to see both sides of the many debates, and also to inspire optimism thanks to the wide range of solutions that are out there, be they technologically driven, or founded on ancient traditions and wisdoms. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and more: Lily’s website and company Who Cares Wins: Lily’s book and podcast The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow Sky Diamond — Carbon capture diamonds Bryony’s recommended documentary on diamonds

Welcome to Season 12 of Cleaning Up! If you want a sense of the trajectory of climate action, you have to understand China, and you have to understand finance. There is no one better to share insights on both than Dr Ma Jun, Founder and President of the Institute of Finance and Sustainability in Beijing. Between 2014 and 2020, Dr Ma served as Chief Economist and then Member of the Monetary Policy Committee of the People’s Bank of China. Over the subsequent years, Dr Ma played a key role in the development of sustainable finance in China and around the world. He led the drafting of China’s green finance and green bond guidelines; he led work on green finance at the G20; he pushed for the greening of China’s Belt and Road initiative; he set up initiatives with the global accounting and standards bodies; and he helped enlist the world’s major financial centres in the drive to green the capital markets. Dr Ma is a towering figure in the area of green finance in China and in the world, and provides an invaluable perspective on one of the most significant players in the clean energy transition. Please like, subscribe and leave a review. Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram, and sign up for the Cleaning Up newsletter at https://cleaninguppod.substack.com. Links and related episodes: Dr Ma’s 2017 book, “The Economics of Air Pollution in China: Achieving Better and Cleaner Growth” https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7312/ma--17494 Dr Ma and Simon Zadek: Decarbonizing the Belt and Road https://www.climateworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/BRI_Exec_Summary_v10-screen_pages_lo-1.pdf Episodes 14 with Jonathan Maxwell – Cheaper, Cleaner, More Reliable https://www.cleaningup.live/episode-14-jonathan-maxwell/ Episodes 113 with Jonathan Maxwell — Checkpoint 2023: Energy Efficiency Investment https://www.cleaningup.live/ep113-jonathan-maxwell-checkpoint-2023-energy-efficiency-investment/ Episode 153 with Lauri Myllivyrta – Shedding Light on Energy's Dirty Secrets https://www.cleaningup.live/shedding-light-on-energys-dirty-secrets-ep153-lauri-myllyvirta/ Episode 84 with Mark Carney - The 130 Trillion-Dollar Man https://www.cleaningup.live/ep84-mark-carney-matching-net-zero-supply-and-demand/ Episode 145 with Professor Avinash Persaud – The Bridgetown Initiator https://www.cleaningup.live/the-bridgetown-initiator-ep145-prof-avinash-persaud/

Bryony and Michael round up the eleventh season of Cleaning Up this week. They explore the themes running through the episodes, from theories of change to innovation, and discuss the things that surprised them, the moments they liked (or didn't) and reasons for optimism for the transition. Links: Ep149: Material World - Ed Conway: https://www.cleaningup.live/material-world-ep149-ed-conway/ Ep150: Selling Sustainability - Solitaire Townsend: https://www.cleaningup.live/selling-sustainability-ep150-solitaire-townsend/ Ep151: Redesigning Mining - Mark Cutifani: https://www.cleaningup.live/redesigning-mining-ep151-mark-cutifani/ Ep152: Can We Have a Habitable Planet? - David Wallace-Wells: https://www.cleaningup.live/can-we-have-an-habitable-planet-ep152-david-wallace-wells/ Ep153: Shedding Light on Energy's Dirty Secrets - Lauri Myllyvirta: https://www.cleaningup.live/shedding-light-on-energys-dirty-secrets-ep153-lauri-myllyvirta/ Ep154: Green Heat (And Cooling) Under Our Feet - Tamsin Lishman: https://www.cleaningup.live/green-heat-and-cooling-under-our-feet-ep154-tamsin-lishman/ Ep155: Extreme Electrochemistry - Prof. Donald Sadoway: https://www.cleaningup.live/extreme-electrochemistry-for-a-sustainable-future-ep155-prof-donald-sadoway/ Ep156: A Magnificent Woman And Her Flying Machines - Bonny Simi: https://www.cleaningup.live/a-magnificent-woman-and-her-flying-machines-ep156-bonny-simi/ A11: The Five Horsemen of the Transition: https://www.cleaningup.live/audioblog-11-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-i-harder-1/ A12: The Five Superheroes of the Transition: https://www.cleaningup.live/audioblog-12-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/ Ep157: The Methane Hunters - Sebastien Biraud & Sharon Wilson: https://www.cleaningup.live/the-methane-hunters-ep157-dr-sebastien-biraud-sharon-wilson/ Ep 158: Absolutely Electrifying - Saul Griffith: https://www.cleaningup.live/absolutely-electrifying-ep158-saul-griffith/

Michael chats with Saul Griffith, Australian-born engineer, inventor, advisor, author and 2007 MacArthur "Genius". He specialises in clean and renewable energy technologies, and has founded a dozen technology companies across 20 years in Silicon Valley, as well as authoring 3 books, including `Electrify', and `The Big Switch'. He has recently turned his attention from Otherlab, his independent Research and Development lab, to policy work and writing, including founding Rewiring America and Rewiring Australia, non-partisan organisations dedicated to electrification and decarbonisation and the associated policy and regulatory implications of meeting our climate goals. Saul received his Ph.D. at MIT in the junction between materials science and information theory. Prior to MIT, he studied in Sydney, Australia and at UC Berkeley in metallurgical engineering. Links Buy Saul's 2022 book Electrify: An Optimist's Playbook for Our Clean Energy Future: https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262545044/electrify/ Buy Saul's The Big Switch: Australia’s Electric Future: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Big-Switch-Australias-Electric-Future-ebook/dp/B09QFQHF8W Buy Saul's 2023 extended essay: https://www.quarterlyessay.com.au/essay/2023/03/the-wires-that-bind Related Episodes The Bridgetown Initiator - Ep145: Prof Avinash Persaud: https://www.cleaningup.live/the-bridgetown-initiator-ep145-prof-avinash-persaud/ Audioblog 12: The 5 Superheroes of the Transition: https://www.cleaningup.live/audioblog-12-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/

Bryony speaks to two fascinating guests, both specialising in methane emissions, their causes and impacts: Dr. Sebastien Biraud and Sharon Wilson. Dr. Biraud is a biogeochemist, leading the Climate Sciences Department. Sebastien's work has taken him to the tropical rainforests of the Amazon, the great plains of the United States, and the Arctic tundra. He is currently co-leading/leading projects for the U.S. Department of Energy and the California Energy Commission. These projects involve integrating and applying high-precision greenhouse gas observations to advance research on the atmospheric carbon cycle and to enhance measurement, reporting, and verification of greenhouse gas emissions. Sharon is a 5th generation Texan who, after 12 years working for the oil and gas industry in Ft. Worth, left and bought 42 acres in Wise County. Unknown to her at the time was that George Mitchell was experimenting in Wise County to figure out how to produce oil and gas from shale. She had a ringside seat at the sneak preview called Fracking Impacts. This experience prompted her to join Earthworks’, working on their Oil & Gas Accountability Project in 2010. In 2014, she became a certified optical gas imaging thermographer and now travels across the U.S. making visible the invisible methane pollution from oil and gas facilities through her non-profit, Oilfield Witness, and giving tours to media, Members of Congress, state lawmakers, regulators, and investment bankers. Links Explore Sharon's work at Oilfield Witness here: https://oilfieldwitness.org View Oilfield Witness' award-winning documentary here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMT2ESXlZ14 Read Sebastien's interview about his work for the Berkeley Lab News Centre here: https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2021/11/10/methanes-short-lifespan-presents-golden-opportunity-to-quickly-address-climate-change/ Read about EDF's MethaneSAT, a recently-launched satellite to track global methane emissions: https://www.ft.com/content/d3d8e7fe-4f0f-4eaf-9bc3-ae99b3fa322a Learn more about MethaneSAT here: https://www.methanesat.org Related Episodes Tackling Super Pollutants - Ep146: Jason Anderson: https://www.cleaningup.live/tackling-super-pollutants-ep146-jason-anderson/