Annie and Melissa are two women who have experienced deep marital betrayal in their relationship. The signs weren’t always clear as to what was actually going on, but when the wool had been pulled over their eyes, the amount of emotions, judgment, and pain they experienced took a long time to recover from. This episode is part two of these two women sharing their very personal story of how they found out about their husbands’ addictions and how they got through it. TAKEAWAYS: [3:15] Hindsight is 20/20. These are real and raw emotions and unfortunately, it’s difficult to hide or protect your children from what’s happening within your household. [4:20] Melissa shares the reactions her friends and family had after they realized what was going on in her marriage. [4:45] Annie found out that she had friends who loved her, but this topic was very difficult for them to handle. [6:45] Did Annie’s husband’s porn use affect their intimate life? [12:55] When Melissa joined a support group, it was the first time she felt validated and like she wasn’t going through this journey alone. [23:45] Guess what, an addict can lie to their therapist! And some therapists eat it all up. [30:50] Melissa knew for many years something was wrong but she just didn’t know what. Those years were painful; to constantly doubt herself. [33:40] The work betrayed spouses have to go through to heal is very different from what an addict has to go through to make amends. [39:15] How did Melissa and Annie meet? They’re so grateful for each other and their support! RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Jasonvr.com Jason on LinkedIn Get Past Your Past QUOTES: “You trust your spouse and it’s something that you never expected to happen. I never expected to find what I found.” “I knew my friends were trustworthy, but I couldn’t go to my friends and be like, ‘guess what I discovered now’. At least, I couldn’t.” “I will never be grateful this happened to me, but I am grateful that because it happened to me, I have made life-long friends.”

Annie and Melissa are two women who have experienced deep marital betrayal in their relationship. The signs weren’t always clear as to what was going on, but when the wool had been pulled over their eyes, the amount of emotions, judgment, and pain they experienced took a long time to recover from. These two women share their stories and also share why they decided to stay with their husbands and support them in their addiction. TAKEAWAYS: [2:15] Today we hear from two women who have gone through painful marital betrayal. [2:45] Why did these two women agree to come on and share their painful story today? [3:50] When Melissa first found out about the betrayal, she didn’t see light at the end of the tunnel. Today, she does. [6:25] Melissa really felt like everything in her relationship was good…until it wasn’t. [13:00] What made Melissa throw her husband out of the house? [14:50] What is betrayal trauma and why do so many partners experience it after finding out about their spouses affairs? [20:00] Why did Annie stay in her relationship? [20:55] When discovery happened, Annie had been married nearly 29 years. [27:25] Dr. Rob defines what ‘porn’ means these days. It’s not just looking at a naked image anymore! [28:50] Guys look at porn, what’s the big deal? [31:15] Melissa’s husband would minimize her concerns when he was ‘out late’. She knew something was wrong, but couldn’t quite put her finger on why or what. [32:45] Melissa’s husband is now upset at himself that he missed so much of his children’s lives because of his addiction. [36:40] Annie shares that when people found out about her husband’s addiction, all the attention went to him. That’s when she felt so alone. [38:30] Annie felt a second betrayal from her husband’s CSAT. She was dismissed in her feelings and she had no support! [40:40] Melissa knew in her gut that something was wrong, so she snooped through his phone. When she found out all the lies and betrayal, she screamed so loud at him that it woke her children up. [41:15] Melissa found out that their couple’s therapist knew about some of his betrayals and kept this information from her. Dr. Rob said this behavior was a violation of trust for a couple’s therapist. If you’re a therapist, don’t do this! RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Jasonvr.com Jason on LinkedIn Get Past Your Past QUOTES: “Anything that’s kept secret from the relationship is a betrayal. It doesn’t matter if it’s with a person or not. It’s all kept secrets and it’s all painful.” “Decades ago, when women left their husbands, they were scorned. Now, when we stay, they don’t understand.” “Just because he screws up doesn’t mean I’m going to throw my lift under a bus.”

Jason VanRuler is a therapist, coach, speaker, and author dedicated to impacting those who make an impact. His first book, Get Past Your Past, is all about establishing a mindset of emotional health and resilience to find lasting wholeness. In this episode, Jason shares his personal self-development journey, why going to therapy is so difficult for so many people, and why our natural inclination is to hurt others; intentionally or not. TAKEAWAYS: [4:15] A little bit about Jason and how he became a therapist. [10:10] Due to Jason’s rough upbringing, he knew he had to work on himself first before helping others. [14:40] Jason explains the reason why he likes to host outdoor retreats and how it helps with the healing process. [21:30] Best way to change your past and maladaptive behaviors is by surrounding yourself with different people. [22:05] It’s important to be honest with yourself and really benchmark where you’re currently are. [25:15] The more successful we get, the less likely we become surrounded by people who tell us the truth. [30:15] Therapists are truth tellers and this is why going to therapy is so hard. [37:45] There was a time in Jason’s life where going to therapy seemed impossible. [38:45] What can we do today that empowers a better story? [40:45] Have a question for Jason? Reach out! RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Jasonvr.com Jason on LinkedIn Get Past Your Past QUOTES: “We aspire to have something that only a different community will give us. If don’t have a different community, our current one just keeps us in the same spot.” “Be honest with where you’re at. So many times we fantasize how we want it to look.” “I think people always hurt people. Always. I don’t think people have gotten out of life without hurting other people, sometimes it’s intentional and sometimes it’s not. ”

Sandra A. Shachar, Ph.D., is a Licensed Psychologist in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and has over thirty years of clinical experience working with individuals, couples and families affected by Betrayal Trauma. She is also the author of The Porn Solution, which dives into the world of betrayal through porn use and what partners can do to navigate themselves through it. In this episode, Dr. Sandra talks about PTSD, intentional listening to your partner, and how to regain your partner’s trust. TAKEAWAYS: [1:50] How could I compete with a porn star? [3:40] Women feel like if he’s watching porn, he’s checked out of the relationship. [5:05] Can this sort of betrayal cause PTSD? Dr. Sandra believes so. [11:40] How can you create meaningful dialogue when talking about something so difficult? [14:20] You can create intentional listening while putting ‘guard rails’ on it. [15:25] If your relationship is in crisis right now, it’s going to be okay. It doesn’t mean that’s where you’re going to end up. [19:10] How can you rebuild trust again? [25:30] If you have children, the reason to heal your relationship should be at the forefront of your mind. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Drsandrashachar.com Dr. Sandra on LinkedIn The Porn Solution QUOTES: “We depend on other human beings for our very survival. In order to survive as a human being, we need intimate connection with at least one other human being.” “What matters most in an intimate relationship is to feel seen, heard, and understood by your partner.” “If you have children, this affects them. The keeping of secrets, they feel all of that.”

Sandra A. Shachar, Ph.D., is a Licensed Psychologist in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and has over thirty years of clinical experience working with individuals, couples and families affected by Betrayal Trauma. She is also the author of The Porn Solution, which dives into the world of betrayal through porn use and what partners can do to navigate themselves through it. In this episode, Dr. Sandra talks about the definition of betrayal, why porn affects so many people, and why it’s okay to ask for your needs to be met. TAKEAWAYS: [3:20] Is porn cheating? [3:55] Why did Dr. Sandra write the book, The Porn Solution? [7:10] What is the definition of a betrayal? [12:05] Porn, what’s the big deal? I’m not cheating on you! [18:10] Why does porn betrayal affect women so deeply? [22:35] How can we regain a partner’s trust after a betrayal? [24:30] You have a right to ask for your needs to be met. It’s okay to have needs! [29:15] What is a problem for one person, is a problem for both people. [29:55] Porn isn’t the issue, it’s the trust! RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Drsandrashachar.com Dr. Sandra on LinkedIn The Porn Solution QUOTES: “When I talk to spouses about their experience of whether porn felt like a betrayal to the relationship, we got up to 80%. We have a population of female spouses who say it’s a big deal.” “It’s not the act of what you’re doing specifically, it’s the deception. It’s what you’ve hidden me that constitutes as the betrayal.” “It makes absolute sense why you’re reacting the way you are. This is normal under these abnormal circumstances.”

Dr. Rob and Tami talk about the healing properties a journal practice can have. A listener wrote that her therapist wants her to journal out the resentment and anger that her SA has caused her, but the mere thought of doing this gets her re-triggered and angry all over again. Is there really a point to all of this aside from re-remembering the betrayal? TAKEAWAYS: [:25] My SA husband’s entire family has suffered from some sort of sexual addiction or abuse. Is all of this hereditary? [8:30] How can intermittent reward cause or enhance relationship addiction? [16:15] What’s the point of writing my betrayal down? I feel so angry just thinking about it. [18:50] If you have a lot of anger inside you, a journal practice can be very healing. [19:45] My addict is weaseling out of our initial agreement. What should I do? [26:05] If you’re not doing the work, then it doesn’t matter what you say or do. [26:15] He’s sober but still can’t be intimate with me. He says he feels shame. Is this just an excuse? RESOURCES: Seekingintegrity.com Email Tami: Tami@Seekingintegrity.com Sexandrelationshiphealing.com

Dr. Rob and Tami break down the gray area between just having fun, being “at-risk” for an addiction, and being a full-blown addict. It can be difficult to define the line fully when you’re in the middle of a “good time.” Dr. Rob offers various considerations for you to think about to determine whether you’re barely teetering the line or if you’re in a bad and unsustainable place. TAKEAWAYS: [:35] I believe my partner is a narcissist and a sex addict. He’s hurting me but I can’t seem to walk away. How can I just leave him? [8:40] Have a three-circle plan! You need a healthy plan that will value you. [10:50] Can you become addicted to friendships? [15:50] My betrayed partner doesn’t believe me anymore, even when I’m telling her the truth. Do I just agree with her? [22:30] Is there an in-between stage where someone can be between “at-risk” for an addiction vs. being a complete addict? [26:55] Do I need to do yet another formal disclosure with my addict? We just don’t have the money for another therapist right now. RESOURCES: Seekingintegrity.com Email Tami: Tami@Seekingintegrity.com Sexandrelationshiphealing.com Intherooms.com Out of the Doghouse: A Step-by-Step Relationship-Saving Guide for Men Caught Cheating, by Robert Weiss Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency, by Robert Weiss Sex Addiction 101: A Basic Guide to Healing from Sex, Porn, and Love Addiction, by Robert Weiss Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men, by Robert Weiss

Lucy Beresford hosts LBC Radio’s Sex and Relationships show and she’s the author of 4 books, including the global best-seller Happy Relationships. She works as a psychotherapist at The Grace Clinic, London and from time to time at The Delhi Psychiatry Centre in India under Dr. Sunil Mittal. In this episode, Lucy talks about refinding your voice again after a betrayal, how to create a deeper connection with a partner, and what are the steps forward if you continue to stay in a marriage that had a betrayal in it. TAKEAWAYS: [5:00] Lucy shares a time where she lost her voice and had to rediscover it again. [6:10] How can you show up for yourself? How can you own your own voice? [7:30] What does Lucy mean to ‘have a voice’? [10:15] It’s very hard for women who have experienced betrayal to have a voice. [12:10] When women get into relationships, their sense of self often gets drowned out. [19:40] It’s so hard to stay committed to someone when you’ve had a small fight; much less a betrayal. [24:50] Unfortunately for addicts, they’ve hurt their best friend and partner and so they can not depend on this person (right now) for emotional support. [31:10] What do we unwillingly enable in someone else because of our own baggage and history? [34:35] You’ve consciously chosen to stay, now what? [40:45] Lucy talks about disclosed non-monogamy and what that means for a couple. [46:15] If your personality is being crushed and you’re becoming a former version of yourself, when should you stop everything and listen? [50:00] A little bit about Lucy and her work/books. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Lucyberesford.com Lucy on LinkedIn Infidelity: to stay or go…? QUOTES: “I didn’t know I had permission not to have children. It showed me there are people out there who are making choices in their life for other people.” “What’s the impact of you living authentically? It’s one thing to be sad about the life you had, it’s another to assist in that sadness.” “How do I retain a sense of me while celebrating and nourishing ‘we’?”

Dr. Monique Thompson is a Psychotherapist in Dallas, Texas. She has seen over 1,000 couples in her counseling practice over the years and now shares tips and tools for couples to help recover from infidelity. She recently wrote a workbook for couples who are looking to recover from infidelity and shares her industry insights with Dr. Rob on today’s episode. After infidelity, many couples are unconsciously going to war with one another. Dr. Monique shares how you can get back to peaceful territory once again. TAKEAWAYS: [3:40] Why did Dr. Monique decide to write a book about infidelity recovery? [7:20] What responsibilities or accountability should the non-affair partner take on? [10:55] When you choose to stay, you have to mentally keep in mind you’re going to war. You’re no longer in a time of peace. [11:25] Some couples never consciously choose to stay. They just didn’t get divorced and that is not the same. [15:35] Why did Dr. Monique write the Infidelity Recovery Workbook for Couples? [20:30] Your own healing comes from a place of healing within yourself. Your partner won’t be able to help you with that. [24:30] Are you compelled to set down ultimatums in hopes your partner will change? [32:25] Dr. Monique shares why it’s important to take a deep breath in and reset your mindset. [36:00] Sometimes people cheat because they can’t be themselves. What happens when someone finally reveals their ‘true’ persona and their partner still wants to leave? [39:55] Does Dr. Monique have a different approach for a young couple vs. an older couple? RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Doctormoniquethompson.com/ Infidelity Recovery Workbook for Couples QUOTES: “If you’re choosing to stay, you’re choosing to go off to war. You’re not at home during peace time.” “Sometimes, people really didn’t choose to stay, they just didn’t get a divorce. That’s not the same.” “I ask couples if they are willing to set a peace treaty down for a period of time to be able to begin the work.”

Dr. Jamie Marich is a facilitator of transformative experiences. A clinical trauma specialist, expressive artist, writer, yoga teacher, performer, short filmmaker, Reiki master, TEDx speaker, and recovery advocate. Marich has taught conscious dance seminars at various conferences nationally, internationally, and online, and has trained more than 500 facilitators in the Dancing Mindfulness practice. She is also the author of several books including the original Trauma and the 12 Steps. Dr. Stephen Dansiger is a master EMDR therapist and provider of EMDR Basic Training and Advanced Topics Courses with the Institute for Creative Mindfulness, and has helped set up the premiere Buddhist addictions rehab center, Refuge Recovery Centers. He has been practicing Buddhist mindfulness for almost 30 years (including a one year residency at a Zen monastery), and teaches dharma classes regularly in Los Angeles and other centers internationally. TAKEAWAYS: [3:40] Why did Dr. Jamie and Dr. Stephen write a Trauma and the 12 Steps workbook? [6:40] Dr. Jamie loves writing books because it’s accessible for everyone, especially those who might not be able to afford therapy. [7:35] What made Dr. Stephen excited to collaborate with Dr. Jamie? [11:55] How do people heal their trauma while they’re also reliving it? [13:40] What is the greatest gift about being a therapist specializing in trauma? [17:00] Why throw 12-step practices into this mix of trauma and healing? [21:00] People enjoy the structure that 12 Steps brings and it makes it easier for them to follow a healing journey if they know what to expect. [30:00] Dr. Jamie talks about Step 6 and how it can perpetuate feelings of shame. [33:40] Now that you know about your trauma, what are the next steps? It’s important not to fall into a victim mindset. [43:30] What is mindfulness, really? [47:55] Many people who have come into a 12-step program have been wounded by God, and end up missing out on a wealth of knowledge and healing. [50:20] What books should you start with first? RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Drjamiemarich.com Drdansiger.com Traumamadesimple.com QUOTES: “There is not a separation between trauma therapy and 12 Steps, and Buddhist practice. It all goes together.” “Hurt people hurt people, but how I really like to reframe that is trauma is this phononym where you can bleed all over each other.” “Yes I am responsible for adult behavior but I am not a bad person. I wasn’t responsible for what happened to me, but how I learned to adapt and survive, I am responsible for.”

Dr. Stan Tatkin, PsyD, MFT, is a clinician, researcher, teacher, and developer of A Psychobiological Approach to Couples Therapy® (PACT). He has a clinical practice in Calabasas, CA, and developed the PACT Institute for the purpose of training other psychotherapists to use this method in their clinical practice. In this episode, Dr. Stan discusses the 5 things that break a relationship apart, how to recover from a betrayal, and how to live a pro-relationship life. TAKEAWAYS: [1:45] How do you recover from a betrayal? [6:00] In a society, we are forced to grow up for the betterment of our tribe. [7:25] What do couples complain the most about? [11:25] People will commit the same mistakes over and over because they don’t understand the internal errors that they’re making. [15:25] What happens if you’re stuck in a relationship ‘role’ that you don’t like? [18:20] What does it mean to be pro-relationship? [20:35] Your attachment needs are not rooted in love. Dr. Stan explains why. [26:00] Want to know more about Dr. Stan? Link in the show notes! RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Thepactinstitute.com In Each Other’s Care by Dr. Stan Tatkin QUOTES: “There are cultures where it’s emphatically insistent and people do grow up because the culture demands that you operate with each other.” “We do the same things that mess up relationships, no matter what kind of relationships they are, and we always will if we don’t understand our nature.” “Everything I am talking about is inline with being selfish. Being pro-relationship is being pro-self. They are one and the same.”

Dr. Stan Tatkin, PsyD, MFT, is a clinician, researcher, teacher, and developer of A Psychobiological Approach to Couples Therapy® (PACT). He has a clinical practice in Calabasas, CA, and developed the PACT Institute for the purpose of training other psychotherapists to use this method in their clinical practice. In this episode, Dr. Stan discusses what really is the glue that keeps relationships together, why they are so messy, and how you can better define it with the person you love. TAKEAWAYS: [3:50] Let’s talk about conflict in a relationship. [5:05] What do people actually view as ‘important’? [7:05] People have the ability to ‘make things up’, so it’s important that you and your partner are on the same page when it comes to a relationship. [9:25] Someone might be something you’ve always wanted, but they’re also going to be a lot of things that ‘you don’t want’. It’s important to navigate through that. [11:20] There has to be a reason why two people join together and it has to be for more than just love. [18:50] How can you move through a relationship consciously? [23:00] When you’re in the middle of conflict, how do you resolve it or go through it in a healthy way? [28:35] Sometimes, you need to fall on your sword so that you and your partner can find a way to communicate again. It’s a team sport. [32:40] Like with everything, good conflict resolution is a skill that anybody can learn. As you learn, you’ll make mistakes, you won’t be perfect, but you will get better at it. [33:30] How do you have agreement when there’s been a betrayal? RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Thepactinstitute.com In Each Other’s Care by Dr. Stan Tatkin QUOTES: “Conflict is a very human thing. If you’re a human primate, you’re going to get into conflict.” “In a relationship that we are creating, we have to define it. We have to make sure that we are creating the same picture in our heads.” “Love and attraction wanes. A lot goes. But we’re still accountable if we’re going to play fair and work together.”

Dr. Rob continues his discussion with Jay and Larry, two men in recovery, to help people understand that addiction is a lot more complex than it seems on the surface. The opinion you have of yourself can keep you stuck in destructive patterns. It’s so important to consciously put yourself in healthy and positive environments, like in a recovery or group program, if you ever wish to break free from the power of addiction. TAKEAWAYS: [2:00] Larry had this internal dialogue going through his head, “This is just who you are.” [3:20] Larry’s wife found out about him acting out at least 4-5 times. He shares how it completely tore her about. [6:55] Larry didn’t realize all of his lies were causing his wife PTSD. [7:25] If there was anything that Larry could change, it would be to tell the truth and to tell it faster. [8:45] Jay was living in a fantasy world and he didn’t realize it was destroying the people who loved and cared for him. [13:05] Why did Jay go to a residential program? Wasn’t group therapy enough? [15:45] Jay was able to prove through actions that he was taking his recovery seriously. [18:00] Larry’s experience with Dr. Rob was life changing. [22:15] Mentorship is a very important piece to recovery. Jay has taken this on as part of his recovery and healing journey. [24:00] When you lose trust with the people you love, then you lose what really defines the relationship. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss QUOTES: “What other people don’t know won’t hurt them; is probably the biggest lie in addiction.” “I would think I was telling the truth, but I wasn’t. I’d change a slight detail.” “A residential program accelerated my recovery. I was surrounded by people who were experts in the field and at the same time I had peers who made me feel safe.”

Dr. Rob speaks with two people in recovery, Jay and Larry, about their addiction and the type of damage it has caused their families. Jay and Larry also talk about why they felt comfort in their addictions and how their lives have been improved now that they are sober and aware of their problem. TAKEAWAYS: [2:25] Why did Jay seek help and go to treatment? [4:15] Jay was frustrated that he couldn’t fix himself on his own. [5:25] Larry shares his experience with addiction. [6:05] Larry was so afraid of connecting with people, which is why he found comfort with porn. [9:15] At first, Larry thought it was his wife’s problem on why they were having issues. It turned out, it was his addiction that was the problem. [12:30] Why did it take Jay 45 years to seek professional help? [15:50] Jay’s first therapist did not believe in sex addiction. She thought he was just a liar. [18:55] Why did Larry keep telling his wife about the slips he had with porn? Why didn’t he just keep it a secret? [21:15] Larry knew it was unhealthy, and Larry knew it was terrible, but he couldn’t stop. [26:15] Jay talks a little bit about his childhood, and why he found comfort in sex with strangers. [30:00] When Jay would travel, it would trigger him because he was so lonely and he wanted to act out to fill the void. [32:35] Jay would try to use willpower for it to go away, but he just couldn’t sustain it. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss QUOTES: “I tried to do this on my own, but it wasn’t until I got group therapy where I was able to get through my shame.” “Just going to a weekly meeting wasn’t enough. It wasn’t working. I was in a state of denial.” “I never realized what I was doing was part of an addiction. I thought I was just being a guy.”

Dr. Rob speaks with Alcohol Counselor Gary Seidler about the long-term effects children experience when living in an alcoholic home. Gary and Dr. Rob talks about trauma, the importance of storytelling and the ability to vocalize some of your unique experiences with addiction, and they offer clarification on what is considered a true addiction in this week’s episode. TAKEAWAYS: [2:45] At the root of every addiction, there is some form of trauma. [4:25] What is the difference between big T and little T trauma? [7:30] More and more people are talking about the traumas they grew up with. [9:40] How do you know if you have an addiction? Isn’t technically everything an addiction? [14:00] Children of alcoholics are completely focused on the other person. [14:45] Gary is currently writing a book for adult children of sex addicts. What are some of the similarities/differences Gary sees among this group? [17:20] Adult children of sex addicts often carry a lot of shame about their own sexual behavior and sexuality. [19:30] These adult children have a very unique lens of extremes. Gary expands on what this means. [22:10] How do these adult children deal with intimacy? [23:30] With the internet, you’re just one click away from seeing whatever sexual content you want. [26:45] Unfortunately, young children are learning about sex from porn. [31:05] Are you sure you don’t need help? Remember that denial is the enemy. [33:30] Sex addiction feels so personal to the family even though it’s not the spouse or children’s fault. [36:05] Your internal shame can slowly go away by talking about it in a support group. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Gary on LinkedIn QUOTES: “When our family [appears] perfect or you don’t talk about it, we don’t learn.” “Nobody comes to treatment to grow personally. People come in because they’re in crisis.” “We adapt to situations that are intolerable when we love somebody.”

Dr. Rob speaks with Alcohol Counselor Gary Seidler about the long-term effects children experience when living in an alcoholic home. What happens to these children when they become older? Should children know about their parent’s substance abuse and sex addiction issues? And what should adult children be aware of now that they’re no longer in an alcoholic home? All these questions and more are answered on this week’s podcast. TAKEAWAYS: [3:55] A little bit about Gary and his work in the mental health field. [5:55] Why did Gary pursue this work with adult children of alcoholics? [12:00] What are the symptoms of these adult children who grew up around or in alcoholic homes? [16:30] Why was there such a need for young adults of alcoholics to have a rooms program? [21:10] Addiction is a family issue. No one is truly suffering alone. [22:20] Gary shares some of the people he admires over the years that have done great things in this field. [24:30] In the early days of these adult children of alcoholic conferences, it was the first time some of these people could voice their pain and hurt with others who also understood. [25:20] Addiction is passed on generationally. It doesn’t just stop at the addict. [30:10] Remember, going into rehab is only the beginning of your rehab journey. [31:25] Gary shares his own personal experience with addiction and recovery. [37:25] What does recovery mean to Gary? RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Gary on LinkedIn QUOTES: “John Bradshaw brought to the public consciousness the idea the dysfunction is not just in the addict, it spreads to the entire family.” “Addiction is really a family affair.” “For every addict, there are 3, 4, 5 people who are deeply affected.”

Dr. Rob invites Spiritual Counselor and Pastor, Jason Swilling, on to the podcast today. Jason works with Dr. Rob at the Seeking Integrity clinic. It doesn’t matter what religion you believe in, or do not believe in, this is a great podcast episode for anyone who wants to understand their connection to a higher power and what that might mean for you. It doesn’t matter if you are Muslim, Christian, or even an Atheist, Dr. Rob and Jason have some answers for you. TAKEAWAYS: [2:05] A little bit about Jason and how he found Dr. Rob and his clinic. [3:00] Although Jason studied Christianity and comes from that background. How does he work with people of other faiths? [5:55] How does Jason help people work with some of their regrets and the things they did that went against their religious and moral beliefs? [7:40] It’s not about failing God, it’s about failing yourself. [11:05] How do you find your way back to God/religion? [17:25] What about the people who do not have any religion or faith? How does Jason navigate that? [18:00] In the 12-step program, you need some kind of faith. How do atheists manage or stay sober? [23:20] It all comes down to your connection with others. Unfortunately, a lot of religious communities have forgotten this aspect. [29:20] Dr. Rob feels like a lot of people are not welcomed in their religious communities and people then feel compelled to hide their shame and imperfections. [35:15] As you share your secrets in a safe community, people in recovery get to experience something really beautiful for the first time. [39:25] Your recovery program works if you work it. Jason is proof of that. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss QUOTES: “The spirituality of 12-step recovery is all inclusive. There is no discrimination against certain religions.” “Often times a spirituality of a person is that it’s just me and God alone. I can take God off the shelf and I can put God on the shelf. And usually I put God on the shelf whenever I act out.” “I have friends who are atheists who are long-time sober and don’t believe in God. Religion or any of that, is not necessary to work the recovery program to stay sober.”

Dr. Rob joins this week’s podcast in a solo episode to talk about the concept of forgiveness. The truth is, there is no true deadline or timeframe as to when you should forgive someone for all the hurt and damage they’ve caused you, so how do you move forward? Dr. Rob shares the stages of forgiveness and offers context and support on why you might still be resentful and/or revengeful towards the person that hurt you the most. TAKEAWAYS: [2:30] How do you forgive someone you do not trust? [3:45] Many people believe they don’t think they could ever forgive or forget the damage their addict has caused them. [4:20] Forgiving and forgetting are not the same thing. [9:30] Other people were able to see it, so why couldn’t you? Dr. Rob shares why. [13:20] There are many stages of grief and we can flutter in between each of them back and forth. [17:15] You have the right to be upset! You have the right to be furious! [20:20] No one is truly ready to forgive. You can’t just say ‘now is the time’. [23:30] How do you not hold a grudge/be resentful when your addict is on their path to recovery? [28:15] If someone doesn’t want to act with empathy and to think of the other person, then they shouldn’t be in a relationship. [33:00] It’s so attractive and validating to want to punish your addict for all the transgressions they’ve done to you. [36:10] What are the stages of forgiveness? [37:35] You can get stuck during the forgiveness process. This isn’t an easy thing to do. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss QUOTES: “The whole idea of forgiveness creates conflict within us because we feel we need to reach a ‘certain point’ and at that point, we’re ready to forgive” “A lot of us struggle with forgiveness because, in part, we blame ourselves. We say, ‘We should have known.’ and that’s when forgiveness becomes complicated.” “There’s a great reality of this loss and its effects. We can’t deny them, we can’t push them away, and we can’t say to ourselves ‘it’s time to forgive’.”

Dr. Jessica Higgins is a licensed Psychologist with two graduate degrees in psychology and today she continues her discussion around forgiveness in part two of this episode. Dr. Rob and Dr. Jessica talk about why expressing vulnerability is not a weakness but an opening to a better relationship future, how to recover after a conflict and speak your peace, and why emotional unavailability and lack of connection tend to be more painful than the actual act of cheating in itself. TAKEAWAYS: [1:30] It is possible to communicate healthy agreements on what is acceptable and unacceptable in your relationship. [3:30] Sometimes therapists assume or expect that the betrayed spouse will know how to react or talk to their spouse who is struggling with addiction. [7:10] Instead of complaining to your spouse right away, there are benefits to journaling or writing down your thoughts about what their actions meant to you and how you perceived it. [9:10] If we share vulnerability, your partner is more likely going to respond positively to that than if you were to act aggressively or accusatory. [11:30] After reading hundreds of letters from betrayed spouses, it was never the cheating that hurt them the most. It was the emotional unavailability. [14:30] You can show up in little ways and it will begin you on the path of having your betrayed partner feel valued again. [18:20] The most important part to relationships is how you repair after a conflict or mistake. [22:20] What are some indicators that a relationship is completely done? [25:30] Interested in working with Dr. Jessica? Link to her website is in the show notes. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Drjessicahiggins.com Shifting Criticism guide Empowered Relationship Podcast link Dr. Jessica Higgins Website QUOTES: “There’s an attempt to control your partner [when feeling hurt], this is understandable to want to feel that protection, to help your partnership, but it’s counterintuitive. It’s going to create a false sense of trust.” “Almost every time, betrayed partners write about how [their partner] felt unavailable. Didn’t think about how much I really needed you. You didn’t open up to me and I felt alone.” “The harm people cause each other is not the important part of this whole picture. We make mistakes. The important part is all in the repair. It’s not that you make a mistake, it’s you going back and saying you didn’t do that right.”

After a huge betrayal, it can be nearly impossible to come back to the center and find forgiveness. Some couples are ready to move forward and to forgive, but they keep getting stuck in the negative patterns of their betrayal, hurt, and distrust. Is there a healthy way to move forward? Should you even forgive in the first place? Dr. Jessica Higgins is a licensed Psychologist with two graduate degrees in psychology. She explains how you can move through these emotions and reach a place of repair within your relationship in this week’s episode. TAKEAWAYS: [2:00] A little bit about Dr. Jessica. [4:55] How do you help someone find peace after a deep betrayal? [8:45] There is no guarantee around not being betrayed. [10:35] It’s a different feeling when someone shows up to the relationship with intentionally vs. passivity. [14:00] How do you move a couple forward from being stuck in a place of anger? [18:45] Would it be helpful for the addict to explain their childhood to their partner? [23:35] When will the betrayed spouse forgive me? [25:40] Some people feel like if they remain resentful, they’re teaching the other person a lesson. RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101 Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Drjessicahiggins.com QUOTES: “A lot of spouses are looking for a guarantee. What you’re doing [today] isn’t really real and I want you to prove it.” “There is a part of me that really wants to trust you and feel like I’m not managing you.” “There are 350 definitions of forgiveness. There are some nuances and it can be hard to pin down what you’re dealing with.”