Think building killer APIs like Stripe or Twilio is purely a technical feat? Think again. This week, we dive into why crafting successful APIs is fundamentally an organizational challenge, demanding internal excellence long before code is deployed. Sagar Batchu, co-founder and CEO of Speakeasy, joins us to unpack the crucial role of ownership, design principles, and why even internal APIs benefit from treating them like first-class products. Discover how Conway's Law dictates your API's fate and why achieving that coveted developer experience starts with your company's structure. Getting these foundations right is more critical than ever, as the landscape now faces a dramatic shift with the rise of LLMs and agentic AI. This potentially multiplies API usage and introduces the concept of "Agent Experience" (AX), demanding even greater rigor around clear standards, documentation, and metrics like "Time to First 200." Sagar also explores the emerging Model Context Protocol (MCP) and explains why focusing on developer productivity today prepares you for the AI-driven future of tomorrow. Check out: AI Features Demo: The Future of Productivity Is AI-Driven Survey: Discover Your AI Collaboration Style Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest(s): Website: speakeasy.com LinkedIn: Speakeasy X: @speakeasydev Referenced in today's show: It costs nothing to be polite unless you're talking to ChatGPT - then it costs tens of millions Announcing the Agent2Agent Protocol (A2A) - Google Developers Blog A Deep Dive Into MCP and the Future of AI Tooling Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

When it comes to securing software, most developers feel like they're playing catch-up instead of setting the rules. Tanya Janca (SheHacksPurple), author of "Alice and Bob Learn Secure Coding," brings her 28 years of IT and security expertise—spanning counter-terrorism to enterprise training—to Dev Interrupted. She unpacks the common pitfalls teams face when security is treated as an afterthought, highlighting the developer frustration of being held accountable for security without the tools or knowledge needed to succeed. Explore how transforming security from a final gate into an ongoing practice saves money, reduces conflict, and builds better software through clear requirements and true developer empowerment. Tanya provides concrete advice for developers and leaders on creating internal knowledge libraries, fostering continuous learning habits, and critically evaluating AI-generated code to ensure it meets security standards. Speaking of AI's growing role, we're curious how it's reshaping workflows across the industry. Share your own experiences with AI adoption by taking our quick survey to discover your spot on the adoption graph (and what you can do to level up). Check out: Beyond Copilot: Gaining the AI Advantage Survey: Discover Your AI Collaboration Style Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest(s): Website: SheHacksPurple LinkedIn: Tanya Janca Book: Alice and Bob Learn Secure Coding Referenced in today's show: Shopify CEO says staffers need to prove jobs can’t be done by AI before asking for more headcount Anthropic flips the script on AI in education: Claude’s Learning Mode makes students do the thinking Celebrate 50 years of Microsoft with the company's original source code Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Is your company rushing headlong into AI, only to find it's a 'square peg in a round hole'? This week, Andrew tackles the critical issue of building trust in AI systems with Brooke Hartley Moy, CEO and co-founder of Infactory. Brooke, with her experience at companies like Google and Samsung, cuts through the hype and reveals the biggest misconceptions businesses have about AI. We dive into the 'black box' problem, the importance of high-quality data, and why not all AI is created equal. From seating Matthew McConaughey in the rain to high-stakes medical decisions, we explore the crucial role of domain expertise and the need to move beyond LLM-centric thinking. If you're an engineering leader grappling with AI implementation, this episode is your essential guide to building trustworthy and impactful AI systems. Check out: The Future of Productivity Is AI-Driven Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest(s): infactory.ai Brooke Hartley Moy Referenced in today's show: OpenAI declares AI race “over” if training on copyrighted works isn’t fair use Exploring Generative AI - Birgitta Böckeler AI is "tearing apart" companies, survey finds Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

AI is evolving at a breakneck speed, leaving engineering leaders with a critical dilemma: innovate or fall behind. But how do you experiment with AI without risking your credibility? Andrew Zigler sits down with Adnan Ijaz, Director of Product Management for Next Gen Developer Experience at AWS, to unpack the power of AI agents. Together they discuss how to leverage autonomous AI in your development workflow, and learn from real-world examples like Amazon Q. Dive into the evolving role of the developer and discover how to mentor your AI, not just use it. It's time to shift from task-oriented coding to strategic architecture, and this episode shows you how. But first, co-host Dan Lines frames the conversation by discussing the shift towards measuring the concrete benefits of AI tools in development, rather than just their potential. Dan also provides examples of how to set realistic expectations for AI implementation by focusing on specific tasks and measuring both individual and workflow improvements, highlighting the need for overall workflow optimization. Check out: Translating DevEx to the Board Beyond the DORA Frameworks Introducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStream Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest(s): Adnan Ijaz Amazon Q Developer Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Imagine a world where your engineering team ships features at lightning speed, and they're genuinely happy doing it. Sounds like a fantasy? It doesn't have to be. This week, we're diving into the secrets of building high-performing, happy engineering teams with Thanos Diacakis, a fractional CTO and engineering coach with over 25 years of experience spanning companies like Uber, where he optimizes software engineering teams and drives technical innovation. Thanos reveals the common mental models that hold teams back, why 'technical debt' is a myth, and how to break free from the 'feature factory' mindset. Together, he and Andrew explore practical strategies for achieving engineering excellence, from mastering iterations to managing complexity, and discover how to build a culture where velocity and happiness go hand in hand. Check out: Translating DevEx to the Board Beyond the DORA Frameworks Introducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStream Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest(s): Thanos Diacakis www.cosmicteacups.com Referenced in today's show: FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companies Programming is dying. Software development is booming. 1 in 3 Americans say they have layoff anxiety Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

The promise of Test Driven Development (or TDD) remains unfulfilled. Like many other forms of aspirational development, the practice has fallen victim to countless buzzword cycles. What if the answer is already in our toolbox? This week, host Andrew Zigler sits down with Animesh Mishra, Senior Solutions Engineer at Diffblue, to unpack the gap between TDD's theoretical appeal and its practical challenges. Animesh draws from his extensive experience to explain how deterministic AI can address the key challenges of building trust in AI for testing. These aren’t LLMs of today, but foundational machine learning models that can evaluate all possible branches of a piece of code to write test coverage for it. Imagine writing two years worth of tests for a legacy codebase… in two hours… with no errors! If you enjoyed this conversation about the gaps between theory and execution in engineering culture, be sure to check out last week's chat with David Mytton about shift left adoption by engineering teams. Check out: Translating DevEx to the Board Beyond the DORA Frameworks Introducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStream Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest(s): www.diffblue.com X: diffbluehq LinkedIn: Diffblue Animesh Mishra Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

If you're tired of hearing "shift left" in DevSecOps and seeing little real change, you're not alone. In this episode, David Mytton (CEO of ArcJet, founder of Console.dev) breaks down why traditional approaches to developer security often fail. He reveals the core conflict between developers (who want to build fast) and security teams (who want to mitigate risk), and explains why this misalignment of incentives can be detrimental for your software. Learn why simply handing devs more security tools isn't enough. David shares his insights from years of experience reviewing developer tools and building security products. He discusses the importance of developer-centric design, the power of the right incentives, and the need for security solutions that seamlessly integrate into the developer workflow. Plus, he reveals the secrets to successful developer marketing and why traditional approaches often backfire. Tune in to discover how to foster a security-conscious culture within your engineering team, without stifling innovation or creating unnecessary friction. Learn how to empower developers to build secure software by design, and discover the tools and strategies that are shaping the future of DevSecOps. Check out: Translating DevEx to the Board Beyond the DORA Frameworks Introducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStream Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest(s): console.dev arcjet.com Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

This week, Andrew Zigler sits down with Dr. Maryam Ashoori, Senior Director of Product Management for watsonx at IBM. Together they discuss the evolving AI stack for enterprise and the growing skill gap challenging developers. Dr. Ashoori shares insights from a recent survey of 1,000 developers, highlighting the need for better tools and strategies to manage the growing AI tool sprawl. The conversation also explores the rise of AI agents, the potential of no-code AI development, and the future of software engineering in an AI-powered world. But first, co-host Dan Lines (COO of LinearB) sets the stakes for engineering leaders everywhere: the future of technical work will evolve with agentic capabilities. Must we all become “AI managers” now? Check out: 2025 Software Engineering Benchmarks Report Beyond the DORA Frameworks Introducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStream Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest(s): Maryam Ashoori watsonx.ai Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

This week, Ben and Andrew dive into the (surprisingly?) complex world of calculator apps, analyze how AI is revolutionizing the technical interview, and dissect the emerging “two-tier” economy around AI. What side of the curve does your org fall on? Then, the conversation goes on site to San Francisco, where host Dan Lines hosts Rob Zuber (CTO, CircleCI) and Tara Hernandez (VP of Dev Productivity at MongoDB) for a discussion of LinearB's 2025 Software Engineering Benchmarks Report. We unpack the report's surprising findings on the PR lifecycle, project management hygiene, DORA metrics, code quality, and predictability, with key takeaways for optimizing your engineering team's performance. Be sure to grab your copy of the report to follow along with Dan, Rob & Tara. Check out: 2025 Software Engineering Benchmarks Report Beyond the DORA Frameworks Introducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStream Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest(s): Rob Zuber Tara Hernandez Referenced in today's show: "A calculator app? Anyone could make that." ‘Two-tier’ AI economy is emerging between startups and corporations, with large organizations falling behind, AWS EMEA chief says AI Killed The Tech Interview. Now What? | Kane Narraway New Junior Developers Can’t Actually Code Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Ben and Andrew open the show by dissecting why AI can't see gorillas, how big banks are stepping up to attract tech talent, and why focus is becoming the must-have resource for devs. Then, Vikram Chatterji, co-founder and CEO of Galileo, joins Andrew for a discussion on how engineering leaders can future-proof their AI strategy and navigate an emerging dilemma: the pressure to adopt AI to stay competitive, while justifying AI spend and avoiding risky investments. To accomplish this, Vikram emphasizes the importance of establishing clear evaluation frameworks, prioritizing AI use cases based on business needs and understanding your company's unique cultural context when deploying AI. Check out: 8 Habits of Highly Productive Engineering Teams Beyond the DORA Frameworks Introducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStream Book a demo Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest: Vikram Chatterji Referenced in today's show: Your AI can’t see gorillas How banks caught up in the battle for developer talent The skill of the future is not 'AI', but 'Focus' Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Live from San Francisco, Dev Interrupted explores the future of developer productivity with Ori Keren (CEO, LinearB) and Dharmesh Thakker (General Partner, Battery Ventures). The conversation, recorded before a live audience in San Francisco, examines the exciting possibilities and potential challenges of AI-powered tools, from code completion and review to the more advanced agentic AI. Moderated by Ben Lloyd Pearson, this episode captures the excitement of the event, including audience Q&A and feedback. Ori and Dharmesh share their insights on how these trends will shape the future of software development over the next 12 to 24 months, offering predictions and practical advice for engineering teams and leaders. Discover how these shifts will impact your work and the broader tech industry. Check out: 8 Habits of Highly Productive Engineering Teams Beyond the DORA Frameworks Introducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStream Book a demo Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest: Follow Dharmesh Thakker Referenced in today's show: OpenAI CEO Sam Altman Says They've 'Been on the Wrong Side of History Software development topics I've changed my mind on after 10 years in the industry Chat is a bad UI pattern for development tools NASA is going to do a Twitch stream from the ISS Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

To open the show, Ben and Andrew dive into the latest headlines about DeepSeek from last week. We answer questions like “why did everyone search ‘Jevons paradox'?” and discuss strategic AI investments from financial giants like Goldman Sachs. These moves underscore the growing importance of strong engineering leadership in the age of AI. Then, Luca Rossi of Refactoring joins us to discuss his latest research. Drawing from a comprehensive survey of engineering professionals (thanks to you!), Luca breaks down the key traits and practices of successful engineering teams, revealing surprising correlations between team happiness, shipping frequency, and recognition by non-technical leadership. Be sure to grab your copy of the report to follow along with today’s insights. Show Notes: Dev Interrupted Survey Beyond the DORA Frameworks Introducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStream Book a demo Follow the hosts: Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow today's guest: Follow Luca Referenced in today's show: IBM cashing in on AI AI Stocks: How DeepSeek Changed Views On U.S.-China Artificial Intelligence Competition | Investor's Business Daily William Stanley Jevons Goldman Sachs hires Amazon exec in senior AI engineering role | Reuters Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Ben and Andrew open the show by discussing the emergence of the DeepSeek AI model, Google's shakeup of the SEO landscape, and speculate on whether or not we're seeing the death of free APIs. Then, Ben sits down with Bernd Ruecker, Co-Founder and Chief Technologist at Camunda, to explore how low code solutions are changing the game for developers. They discuss how these tools allow developers to focus on more complex challenges, and delve into the importance of understanding when to leverage low code versus custom solutions, and the evolving role of developers in a world increasingly driven by automation. Finally, do us a favor and fill out the Dev Interrupted listener survey! You'll be our best friend forever :-) Show Notes: Dev Interrupted Survey Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30) Follow Ben Follow Andrew Follow Bernd Learn more at: camunda.com Camundacon 2025 Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Want to ship better software? Get in the fast lane. This week, hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson and Andrew Ziegler open the episode with a discussion of some of the tech topics dominating the news cycle like Microsoft's restructuring to focus on AI, a potential TikTok ban in the U.S. and a status check on New Year's resolutions. Then, joined by Dan Lines, they shift their focus to the 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Report by LinearB. This in-depth conversation explores the crucial link between developer experience and productivity, the impact of project management hygiene on development, and new metrics like PR maturity and project traceability. Within this data-driven discussion, uncover key insights on how smaller PRs boost velocity and quality, the connection between longer cycle times and increased change failure rates, and the ideal investment profiles for engineering teams. Show Notes: Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30) 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Watch Rob Zuber (CircleCI) & Tara Hernandez (MongoDB) explore insights from the 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Report Follow Ben Follow Andrew Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Is your company relying on surveys alone to bridge the gap between developers and managers? In this episode of Dev Interrupted, host Ben Lloyd Pearson and Dan Lines, COO of LinearB, dive into the perceived misalignment between engineers and their leaders on improving developer experience. Together, they emphasize the importance of data-driven insights over relying solely on surveys, highlighting how quantifiable metrics can illuminate issues like technical debt and build times. The conversation also touches on the power of setting clear, company-wide goals to boost developer experience and productivity. Next, Conor Bronsdon, in his final episode as host, sits down with Andrew Boyagi, Atlassian's head of DevOps Evangelism. Andrew brings a wealth of knowledge on developer experience, emphasizing the need for transparency, the nuances of measuring productivity, and the crucial role of company culture in aligning development teams with business goals. Show Notes: Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30) 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Follow Ben Follow Conor Follow Atlassian Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

How do you build a culture that balances operational excellence with developer happiness? By shifting from firefighting to foresight. Kick off Season 5 of Dev Interrupted with hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson, Andrew Zigler, and Dan Lines as they share their New Year's resolutions and welcome Sowmya Subramanian, whose leadership journey spans Google, YouTube, and Oracle, to the show. From redefining metrics like DORA to adapting processes like Fix-It Weeks, Soumya discusses dismantling the “hero” mindset that rewards firefighting, aligning engineering with business priorities, and creating rituals that scale teams without sacrificing creativity. Tune in to learn how Sowmya’s holistic approach to metrics, culture, and tooling creates resilient teams and products that scale without breaking a sweat. Show Notes: Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30) 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Follow Sowmya Follow Ben Follow Andrew Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

It's the end of an era on Dev Interrupted as we say farewell to host Conor Bronsdon and welcome a fresh voice, Andrew Zigler! Join us for a nostalgic trip down memory lane as Conor revisits his favorite interviews and moments from Season 4 and beyond, including discussions on chaos engineering, technical debt, and the human side of managing software engineers. He shares memorable stories from guests like Charity Majors, Rob Zuber, Kelly Vaughn, and many more, while reflecting on the evolution of Dev Interrupted and its impact on the engineering leadership community. But it’s not all bittersweet. Get an exclusive sneak peek at the exciting changes coming to Dev Interrupted in 2025. Expect the show to double down on research and data, explore new formats, and even hit the road with live events. Plus, the Dev Interrupted Substack will feature more frequent newsletters, unique analysis of research white papers, and insights from guest writers. You don’t want to miss this special episode filled with laughter, reflection, and a surprise holiday-themed game of Would You Rather. The team is taking off the holidays but we’ll see you back here on January 7th for the start of Season 5! Show Notes: 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights Webinar Keep up with Conor: Substack Listen to Conor at: Chain of Thought Podcast Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

2025 will test every assumption about how engineering teams work. With the new year fast approaching Ori Keren, CEO of LinearB, has some bold predictions that might surprise you, like why developer productivity could actually go down in 2025. Yep, you read that right. As AI tools flood the market, we might see a dip in both productivity and creativity before the long-term benefits kick in. It’s a wake-up call for engineering leaders to rethink how they lead their teams. Ori dives into the trends that’ll dominate: - AI’s rise - The ever-growing need for cybersecurity - Why DevEx and developer productivity are heading for a showdown His advice? Stop flying blind. “You can’t optimize what you don’t measure,” he says. If you’re leading an engineering org, this episode is your 2025 game plan: a mix of data-driven decision-making and people-first strategies to stay ahead in a year of change. Don’t miss this insightful fusion of qual and quant. Show Notes: Join us at Dev Interrupted Live! 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights Webinar Follow Ori Follow Ben Follow Andrew Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

What’s the secret to building better products? Letting engineers drive the vision. This week, host Ben Lloyd Pearson interviews Austin Spiegel, co-founder and CTO of Sift Stack, who previously spent years leading engineering teams at SpaceX. Austin reveals how SpaceX's unique engineering culture, which eliminated the product management layer, influenced his approach to building Sift Stack, including the implementation of a forward-deployed engineering team. Learn how this approach leads to faster development cycles, happier customers, and more innovative products. Austin also argues that we're entering a new era where the most valuable engineers aren't just skilled coders, but also savvy business thinkers. He believes that as software development becomes easier due to the proliferation of AI, engineers who can connect their technical expertise with a deep understanding of customer needs and market trends will have a significant competitive advantage. Show Notes: 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights Webinar Read The secret to better products? Let engineers drive vision Follow Sift Stack on LinkedIn Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Most developers (ourselves included) want to run for the hills when they hear the words “engineering process.” But it turns out, the biggest danger to your team may not be having enough process. You don’t have to take our word for it. This week’s guest made a believer out of us and we’re willing to bet she’ll make a believer out of you too. Julianna Lamb, co-founder and CTO of Stytch, understands that engineering processes can be a sensitive subject for developers. But she argues that the right amount of process can actually boost your team's velocity and empower them to take ownership. Julianna shares insights on how to right-size processes for teams, implement effective project life cycles, and address friction points to ensure smooth workflows. Show Notes: Refactoring x Dev Interrupted Survey Learn more about Stytch Julianna’s LinkedIn Julianna’s Twitter Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever