The singer, rapper and songwriter’s peppy empowerment songs have made her an outlier in a field dominated by melancholic music. Guests: The Ringer's Justin Charity; Lindsay Zoladz; and William Robin.

Lizzo’s Complicated, Joyful Pop

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The Popcast is hosted by Jon Caramanica, a pop music critic for The New York Times. It covers the latest in popular music criticism, trends and news. 

Listen to this podcast in New York Times Audio, our new iOS app for news subscribers. Download now at nytimes.com/audioapp

Lizzo’s Complicated, Joyful Pop

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